Archer infinite arrows and its role

[wiremeshi]

I'm a old crusty FF11 player and my main was and still is RNG. I do love my range attack job/classes in R.P.Gs and will try to be one in any game. (not that its has any baring on the topic just a bit of history)

Infinite arrow question:

Some of ya might noticed my Arc isn't very high in 14. But this is only because I'm saving up the right crafts for it, getting ready to make arrows, bows etc and then I come across a piece of information that arrows may become a infinite item and be honest it did make my heart sink, to think that something I've worked hard to plan for will become semi pointless.

As might you of guessed I'm siding with "No to infinite arrows" camp. Now I can understand spaces issues very well working on botany has taught me to be ruthless when it comes to invent space but that is not enough to justify arrows to become a infinite item in my mind. Most R.P.Gs have micro management as part of their game mechanics and I guess in strange way its one of the things I like about them learning to manage your space makes you streamlined in your roles "do I need this? can I give it to some one else? whats use is it to me?" all good key aspects to planning. Now I can understand how bothersome it is to lose potential useful items but that is part of it adds a small amount of challenge.

I be honest here part of my plan is to be self reliant on making arrows for my archer. But another reason is for profit. Yes indeed I hope to make some gils on selling my wares to other archers that don't have time to level a crafting job. So I have rashly concluded that this will damage this market considerably and I only humbly ask the Dev team to really think this through.

Another counterpoint and I must admit a weak one is the feel of the job knowing you don't have infinite ammo gives that underlining knowledge that sooner or later your going to run out I'm sure we all have played games where the ammo count has made us nervous and this feeling will disappear with its introduction.

On a end note I will say I can really understand a need to for this to be introduced. Its efficient and helps players putting their mind on the class. but with that you lose part of the feel of the class that makes archers, archers. I know that sounds superficial. But I only ask the Dev team to really consider alternatives such as quivers from 11 a stack of 12 or 99 quivers all with 999 arrows each would be enough to help most of the major spaces issues you would have.

Archers role

I would like to add something I mentioned on the players poll that part of the challenge of archer was in picking which arrows is right for the type of monster you were fighting and pointed to the 14 site as reference. I've not check the site for while but it did mention using different arrows for different circumstances I liked that idea but seems to have gone under the radar a bit. I would like to know whats happening to that one of the things I feel that RNG needed in 11 was more active role than a straight out DD.

Okay now I can only relay on 11 for my MMO experience having only played a few other MMOs but not in as greater depth. So when it comes to 11 RNG main range attack was a "/Shoot" macro and auto attack was only active at close range with what ever weapons you had equipped. So when I saw how ARC in 14 had his/her Bow drawn out instead of appearing when fired I was over joyed it looked good and fitted the role perfectly in my mind.
Now of course auto attack is being introduced and attacking at close quarters is conducted with fists. Not bad a small dagger from a belt would of been better and more fitting. My only concern is the damage I'm guessing (since 1.18 is not out yet) that this will balanced so that getting up to close quarter fight is not comparable to a range attack.

I would like to ask what your thoughts on a "sweet spot" for archer I took great pride in 11 knowing by heart where this spot was and though it was introduced later on in the games development it did add a certain tactical element.

I think that most of my quarries and questions done. I hope it might help a bit and to let ya know I'm very much looking forward to 1.18.

[PiXelDreaMs]

I agree that its a bad idea, it makes no logical sense for a start, how can someone carry around -infinite- arrows, if thats the case i want my lancer to do infinite damage and fly on my command >.> It is an awful idea, the sale of arrows would really stimulate the economy, not to mention people selling the items to MAKE the arrows on the wars more (coral, obsidian, etc.) people sell it now but it is by no means something to farm. The sale of arrows would make a large difference to the use of gil, that is, if SE made arrows actually do something. The amount of ARC in the game atm, if they made the later rank arrows powerful i doubt they all have a high rank CRP to make them themselves :P

In summary, id say in a lesser mmo, infinite arrows would be easily understandable, but in a well established MMO with features such as gear damage that make the game a more realistic experience, 'infinite arrows' just doesnt make sense.

[Sav]

I agree that its a bad idea, it makes no logical sense for a start, how can someone carry around -infinite- arrows

Not that I don't agree with you, but how it works now also rubs me the wrong way. The whole "You refill your quiver with 800 arrows" thing. That must be one hell of a quiver! At the same time, I suppose we have to consider functionality. If we wanted realism, we'd only be running around with a 20-arrow quiver. And beyond that, how do we fit stacks upon stacks of 999 arrows in our travel bag? There will be a gap in realism somewhere, so either its restock arrows from a magic bag or use a magically replenishing stock of arrows.

[Wynn]

Not that I don't agree with you, but how it works now also rubs me the wrong way. The whole "You refill your quiver with 800 arrows" thing. That must be one hell of a quiver! At the same time, I suppose we have to consider functionality. If we wanted realism, we'd only be running around with a 20-arrow quiver. And beyond that, how do we fit stacks upon stacks of 999 arrows in our travel bag? There will be a gap in realism somewhere, so either its restock arrows from a magic bag or use a magically replenishing stock of arrows.

I would have to agree with this.

Whether 999 or infinite, it is still not within the realm of realistic. But then again, this is a game and we shouldn't be looking at realistic situations as much as what works best for the game.

[Davorok]

I am against Infinite Arrows (I play Archer in every MMO if that adds any weight), however I will still enjoy Archer if it gets infinite, I just prefer consumable arrows of different varieties (Ice, Fire, etc.).

I would like to see an improved Scavenge though where you can retrieve spent arrows from the dead bodies of your foes. Perhaps make it so that "magic arrows" (ice, fire, etc) become normal arrows once "retrieved" but can be Recharged thru crafting or Materia.

As a compromise, perhaps "Normal Arrows" (non-magically enhanced) are almost infinite with Retrieve, but "Magic Arrows" always need to be crafted/imbued?

[Scherwiz]

Having only taken RNG to 25 in FFXI, I cannot imagine the immense strain on ones pocket this may have had. However, with that said I have played a Hunter 60 in LOTRO with infinite arrows and I am quite confident it hurts absolutely nothing of gameplay or economy. This is mostly because arrows are cleverly replaced with various class specific items like accuracy books (Similar but not the same as food since there was food as well) and oils to put on infinite arrows that make the arrows fire or light arrows. These various items stacked like arrows do in XI and XIV, so they acted in very similar ways.


Anyway, thats just my take on things, I could honestly care less either way and I do believe in on of Bayohne's posts they said that arrows are staying. The methods to create said arrows are just changing in 1.19, so! Happy Archerering!

[wiremeshi]

That is interesting I like the idea of putting oil on arrows to make them useable for fire arrows may be its something the Devs could borrow from. I have to clarify though and this is may sound superfluous on my behalf but I don't think it will damage the whole economy just carpenters in general. In FF11 there was always other items Woodworkers (11's carpenters) could relay on and indeed I my self did even more so than arrows. But arrow making is the driving force of my effects I've leveled Carpenter, alchemist, Weaver, leather and botany in order to ready my self when the time comes for me to get ready. I must also add that what sparked me to make a thread was Bayone's post from another thread

Bayohne

Checked with the development team about making it possible to use arrows infinitely.

I understand that it goes on to mention about the recipe tweaks for 1.19 and also might be conceived as taking his words out of context but that part did stick in my mind I'm not one to make posts really I tend to to read them more than anything else, as anyone can see on my profile but I thought it was something I wanted to point out.

1.19 is a long way off really and things can change I just want this to be thought through and not rushed. in the end my fears may prove unfounded but I'm a sucker for the feel of the game and finding a balance in player friendly usability and setting atmosphere.

[Gath]

They never confirmed anything about infinite arrows, I do believe SE just said "We will look into it." When they say that it means that they don't give a fuck and are just trying to slyly avoid it all together.

[Jennestia]

They never confirmed anything about infinite arrows, I do believe SE just said "We will look into it." When they say that it means that they don't give a fuck and are just trying to slyly avoid it all together.

SE in FFXI: "We'll look into making the next set of addon's battle related; We understand not everyone was satisfied with the first 3."

SE: "Here, have some http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/addon/index.html"

So no it doesn't mean they "don't give a crap and trying to avoid it", it literally means what it says, but that would take the fun out of feeling like you're always correct.

Arrows are a chore to make, not a chore to use and have -- throw in the unbalanced nature of the battle system and there's the current problem.

[Renshi]

Making Arrows:

• Helps the Economy
• Has sense
• Drills the player's butthole/bazongas

The last one is very important. Players have to have obstacles like these. You have an inventory of 100 items and you have to stick stacks of 999 arrows that will need space in your inventory.
Also, if you are finished with arrows during the battle, you have to use Scavenge or throw rocks to the enemy.
Both of the butthurt cases are related by the fact that the player has played bad with the arrows (begun Adventure with 200 arrows, has way too much sh*t in the inventory,...), and even if these things are bad to happen, they're Supposed to happen sometimes so you can feel the rage.

Infinite Arrows is for p*ssies.