Men in Dresses

[Shioban]

Male characters in WoW can wear the Lovely Dress, which is decidedly "feminine" in design.

I honestly don't recall being able to wear that for all the years I played, always thought it was a suit.
Colour me wrong on that I guess.



If you find any other examples, do let me know!
I was actually googling around to see if I could find any Asian MMO's that did this, no luck so far. (Which would be key to the argument here)



I still think that the evidence so far shows that they're very much on the brand of separating items through gender.
(Swimsuits, Guardian Corps/Bohemians, Yukata's) all of which were gender specific and locked items.

Which is why I very much diffuted when you said "I think they'll add it, you're totally wrong!"

I have a male miqo'te who requires a dress.

Make it happen, don't listen to the homophobic and transphobic bigots who can't stand things not fitting into their accepted social norms. I require a pretty dress for my miqo'te. (So that I can then dye it black and be a dark force of chaos and destruction)

Stop trying to make it out as a personal attack. Seriously...
Some people don't feel comfortable with seeing men in something thats clearly a womens dresses, this DOES NOT mean they're homophobic or transphobic.
It's extremely rude to say "Well you're just homo/trans-phobic". If it makes other people feel un-easy or un-comfortable then YOU as another human being someone who also expects mutual respect and equality should consider this factor. It's not all about YOU.

Stop trying to exacerbate this point.

Sadly social norms are what most developers will go for, it's not a popular opinion among the trans-gendered crowd I'm very sure, but I can see their stance on this being along the same as their stance on Gay Marriage in the game.

Naoki Yoshida himself said this; "This is a controversial subject, things like this have to be approached carefully as a company, the decision will come from the development team after we've discussed it enough."

[SpookyGhost]

Stop trying to make it out as a personal attack. Seriously...
Some people don't feel comfortable with seeing men in something thats clearly a womens dresses, this DOES NOT mean they're homophobic or transphobic.

It does, however, say that they're not only incredibly close minded but also very uncomfortable with their sexuality. They also think the world revolves around them and that people should conform to whatever their idea of a "man" and a "woman" is. A burly man with a beard in a dress would be perfectly fine to anyone who isn't insecure - that's their decision, that's how they feel comfortable. A lot of SE's decisions for FF14/FF11 were based on their core audience, the Japanese market - that's why, if marriage is implemented, we probably won't see gay marriage. That doesn't mean it's okay for them to do that or that Japanese customs are supposed to be completely okay with the Western world because "they're from a different place!!". While we won't see dresses for men (most likely) or gay marriage (most likely), that doesn't mean it's fine to critique people for dressing differently. Is that dress really affecting your life in any way? Is it doing ANYTHING more than making you uncomfortable because you're insecure about your sexuality? No, it's really not. Girls wear binders and dress in suits designed for men - is THAT not okay? If not, why not? How is it affecting you? What is it doing to YOU that makes you so uncomfortable?

[Kaoru_Nagisa]

Stop trying to make it out as a personal attack. Seriously...
Some people don't feel comfortable with seeing men in something thats clearly a womens dresses, this DOES NOT mean they're homophobic or transphobic.
It's extremely rude to say "Well you're just homo/trans-phobic". If it makes other people feel un-easy or un-comfortable then YOU as another human being someone who also expects mutual respect and equality should consider this factor. It's not all about YOU.

Stop trying to exacerbate this point.

Sadly social norms are what most developers will go for, it's not a popular opinion among the trans-gendered crowd I'm very sure, but I can see their stance on this being along the same as their stance on Gay Marriage in the game.

Naoki Yoshida himself said this; "This is a controversial subject, things like this have to be approached carefully as a company, the decision will come from the development team after we've discussed it enough."

Sorry, but the only reason I see for anyone to be uncomfortable with men being in dresses is they have internalized transphobic/homophobic societal norms. There is literally NOTHING wrong with men wearing dresses or "women's clothes", just as there is NOTHING wrong with women wearing "men's clothes". Why do people not make a big deal about one but get up in arms about the other? Internalized bigotry. Whether you realize it or not, that's what it is. There is NO reason people should be uncomfortable with it unless they were raised in an oppressive and backwards cultural or societal environment which said "no, these things aren't natural and normal".

It's rude to say someone's a bigot? It's also rude to say "I feel uncomfortable with this and thus don't want to see it". You're being rude to a group of people either way, though honestly I don't feel bad about being "rude" to people with internalized bigotry. They certainly don't feel bad being rude to people just trying to express themselves how they see fit. If anything, THEY'RE the ones making it "all about them", as you tried to say.

[Greed]

Calm down.

Some people pointed out the reason why the developers wouldn't add it, other simply expressed that they didn't want it.
They have JUST as much right to express that they don't want it, as much as you do in requesting it.

shhhh, stop trying to use logic
(just remember what happened in beta phase 1,2,3,4)

[Nuinn]

I see it happening. The naysayers are fools if they think other very popular games do not already do this. Men in World of warcraft can put on dresses. You dont see wow get bashed up because of this. Oh and It was a feature within the game since it came out. Plus we do have a few dresses already. There are a kilt or 2 and skirts. The chest piece of light looks like a darn dress in its own way. So yep if other games do it and its not even thought of, a few extra tight ass people here need to loosen up and stop making dimonds every time the fidget and reply to a thread.

Not with the neckline as it is on those screenshots. Skirt, kilt, tunic, robe, coat =/= dress/frock/gown. Another point missed is that it's not about being tight-assed, at all.

[Mychael]

To play both sides of this argument... I'm gay, have several trans (to varying degrees) friends, and many who do drag weekly if not more often; I see no problem with dresses for men. The above poster is also correct that it is already done.

However, I also see the world around me, and putting something so controversial to so many into the game is not the most sound marketing strategy. I could care less if the devs do or do not support gender equality, gay rights, trans rights, etc; the point is, the majority of the world's population would double-take, if not balk, at a man in a dress. To make a specific effort to "neutralize" clothing would be a controversial move. If they later add dresses that just happen to show the same models on men, great! I think that's what WoW did. I am not a real WoW vet, having only played to max level once or twice, but I believe that the clothes with gender-neutral models (as opposed to a more robe-like male appearance) were all event items, i.e. from Easter, or general vanity items, i.e. wedding dresses.

This topic started out about event dresses--which I support--but has kind of transformed into a general "LET US WEAR ALL CLOTHING WITH THE SAME MODELS" thread. I support the former, and would like to live in a world where the latter is acceptable, it isn't.

Also, I think most truly transgender players have simply created a character of the gender with which they (best) identify. So please, for their sake, don't make this an issue of their rights where it's more about men wanting to do drag. Again, there's no problem with drag, but I think we can all agree that it's hardly the most pressing issue in XIV.

I'd actually like to Ammend the "Anywhere in the world", the player base for the game is mainly in the western world, therefore 'Western Standards' is what I was hinting at.

I don't want to pick your post apart, but you might want to nullify your ammendment[sic]. That statement couldn't be more wrong unless Japan happened to shift a hemisphere or two while I wasn't looking.

[Kaoru_Nagisa]

I have a male miqo'te who requires a dress.

Make it happen, don't listen to the homophobic and transphobic bigots who can't stand things not fitting into their accepted social norms. I require a pretty dress for my miqo'te. (So that I can then dye it black and be a dark force of chaos and destruction)

[Nuinn]

I have a male miqo'te who requires a dress.

Make it happen, don't listen to the homophobic and transphobic bigots who can't stand things not fitting into their accepted social norms. I require a pretty dress for my miqo'te. (So that I can then dye it black and be a dark force of chaos and destruction)

How about they stop listening to the people who only read what they want to read, as opposed to what is written?

P.S. Comments like yours will only make the whole thing more controversial than it is which might add to the devs' insecurity, if you keep swinging words like "homophobic" or "bigoted" around like that. You're welcome.

I would agree. Now in wow nothing was funnier than watching a huge tauren pass by in a weddings dress. It was obviously allowed for fun and well in game people enjoyed them.

That's why I want the same for male Roes (only prettier) I still think they're not going to give us dresses for boys. Wouldn't mind to be proven wrong by the devs.

[FreakinZMartin]

SE remove this thread please, it's getting out of control.

[Mychael]

SE remove this thread please, it's getting out of control.

So grab your popcorn.