Men in Dresses

[Shioban]

Gee still sure seems like you have double standards after all that talk. Thanks for making it even more obvious. So unless your argument comes with a clear -women should ONLY wear skirts and skirts only! I'll just disregard it as hypocritical ramble that it is.

I really feel sorry for people like you who go through this life with so much hate in your heart.

That's the sort of attitude people are trying to avoid in this thread.
You're simply coming across as aggressive and over-sensitive.

I'm not hating on anyone, I don't hate trans-gendered people, I enver said that. stop trying to assume the worst of people just because they don't agree with you. Just because I don't want men to wear that type of dress in FFXIV particularly does NOT make me trans-phobic. That's simply my opinion.

However, we're not here for my opinion. I'm pointing out why it's UNLIKELY to be added.



The "My point is more important, you're just being mean" attitude, no matter what anyone says.
It's borderline childish.

I said it CAN be added. Just that it's NOT LIKELY.
STOP. MAKING. IT. A. PERSONAL. ATTACK. Nothing here is a personal attack. I will say it again.
Anything I have said it based on fact. It's not a normal occurrence for men to wear dresses, therefore it's unlikely to be added.
NOTHING IS STOPPING IT BEING ADDED JUST THAT IT IS UNLIKELY.

I can't make it any more bold or clear, you're not being oppressed, or repressed or slapping down. I am providing my side of the argument as is anyone else. The only thing you're doing is making yourself to look out like an over-sensitive fool.

But you had to make yourself out to be a right eejit by rolling in the un-necessary "homophobia", "bigoted", "Hypocritical ramble"

Hehe. Someone needs a history lesson. Let's take a trip back, shall we say, 100 years or so?

Haha, WHAT.

Oh you're serious.

AHAHAHAHAHAHA. WHAT.

[sarcasm]

Teehee xoxoxo.

Someone, CLEARLY didn't read anything I'd written. Teehhee *giggles*, *flutters eyelashes*.

Well *smacks lips*, like, um.

I totally said this thing right. Were *flicks hair* tee-hee. Like the game is set in a Renissance Era. Teehee.

[/sarcasm]

You're kidding right?

Ever taken a book off a shelf. Come on, really.
100 years ago, men were not wearing dresses. Jesus wept.
More-so to the fact that the early-Renaissance era was 13th-14th Century, therefore you're off by around 500+ years there dear.

My great-grandfather was not cultivating land in a laced-corset-dress.
I can assure you the bankers, post-masters, flaxers were not wearing womens dresses either.

Don't be stupid.

This is a complete lie. I've dealt with gender issues in the planning on THREE different occassions just during last year alone! The only reason they do not come up in your company because there's no-one there speaking up about it.

It's not only the gender issue. Diversity in general just doesn't happen if there's no one making it happen. This is why I feel like it's my responsibility not just as a dev but as a human being to see that games are not just for the white straight heterosexual males.

No-one was speaking up about it, because it wasn't a major issue, as one of the members is actually transgendered who has NEVER once complained thinking "Oh wait, we need to have this and this and this for gender equality in this game!". Because it has no place there, it's not nessecary, it has no bearing or relation to the game IN THE SLIGHTEST.

The bigotries, phobias and other complaints you've noted simply just don't matter in a game as much. At the end of the day the developers do their best to bring the content that they can, they can't appeal to everyone. And all I ever suggested was that this is something they'd very easily ignore.

Your personal 'responsibilities' will differ from that of others, yes. Every 'company' is different. But with a company as large as SE with a short amount of time to develop content, voicing the small minorities isn't a big concern.

Stop making mountains out of mole-hills thinking everyone is attacking your integrity because they disagreed with something you wanted, and or pointed out why it wouldn't happen.

The world does NOT revolve around your ever want and desire, THAT is how things work.

"This game doesn't do any fan-service for the gay communtiy"

Sure it doesn't. I only just spent the past 30 minutes emoting half-naked with a Roegadyn in the middle of Mor Dhona in a swimsuit for s***s and giggles.




And to answer your ridiculous attempts in the past to try and pin me as trans/homophobic, I clearly have to address this to drum this into your head.

I don't like saying this. I don't like beating my own drum and yelling it from a roof-top, because it's no-one else's business. But I'm gay and no-one finds out unless they ask, and they get an honest answer.

A friend just only found out through this post that I was. That should say more than I ever would need to about this entire subject. Less about making a fuss and more about finding an appropriate way to make other people understand.
People are much more accepting and understanding when you're not aggressive, pushy or 'in-your-face'.

I shouldn't even HAVE to tell you this, or provide pictures or explain, YOU shouldn't be so insecure in thinking that everyone is trying to attack your integrity as a person. Declining and providing evidence as to why men probably won't wear dresses in an MMO, isn't an attack on trans-gendered people or 'Shunning them', it's being considerate for others.

You can say "We'll they're not being considerate of trans people", well yes. But at the same time, it's not going to affect just them, it's going to affect everyone else in the game. So stop making it out as if adding this isn't going to cause problems, because it will. Guaranteed.



I don't make any decision people make out to be a personal attack, because I can understand why they would avoid these subjects.
They're still to this day very much taboo and will be for a very very very long time.

YOU ARE A MINORITY. As are many other people with many other wants and needs, this does NOT mean that anyone has to appeal/address that fact.

On the flip-side, this doesn't mean that the option is off the table. There is always a change they'll do it. And I've said this MULTIPLE times, but you don't read the dam paragraphs I type.
THIS CAN BE ADDED, AND IF THEY WANT TO ADD IT THEY WILL. I ONLY POINTED OUT THE FLAWS IN THAT LOGIC.

I don't feel any form of indignation or animosity because the game doesn't appeal to the minority of gay/trans/whatever people there are in the world.

[Hali]

Gee still sure seems like you have double standards after all that talk. Thanks for making it even more obvious. So unless your argument comes with a clear -women should ONLY wear skirts and skirts only! I'll just disregard it as hypocritical ramble that it is.

I really feel sorry for people like you who go through this life with so much hate in your heart.

Implying that any of his posts showed hatred towards anyone.

Just because a person says "these are the facts." Doesn't mean they have to agree with them. Or are you and everyone else who is pent up on the words in his post, and not the context, just blithering idiots? I'm going to make examples for you.
Julius Caesar was stabbed to death. This is a fact, but doesn't mean you have to agree that stabbing someone to death is absolutely fine.
Western Australia had a Shark cull and killed many Sharks. This is a fact, but you don't have to agree with killing Sharks.
During the outbreak of Bubonic plague across central Europe in the Medieval period. Doctors though that smelling roses could alleviate the pain. This is a fact, but we know that the doctors of the time were completely wrong.
It wasn't socially acceptable for men to walk the streets donning women's attire in Renaissance times. This is a fact, but in modern times is less socially unacceptable.

Do you see what I'm getting at? Or do I need to get Sesame Street to teach you guys some toddler level skills? Actually, yes I will get Sesame Street to help you guys along.

A visual representation of Shioban's posts on this topic against any actual homophobic/ transphoboic posts made.

A simple guide on discerning differences when things seem similar.
Big bowl = Shioban's posts stating facts
Small bowls = Homophobic/ transphobic posts made by morons that hate anyone different (oh the irony)

Never thought I'd have to use this video on a group of idiots once again. Sheesh

[alhandra]

[Mychael]

Some threads should really stay dead. This one, though... it's going places. Great places.

[XiaoliVorgan]

[axemtitanium]

/thread

[Akubikumo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTrwbFSz_L4

/precedent

[Azurymber]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTrwbFSz_L4

/precedent

lol i totally forgot about that. was an awesome twist lol

[Naunet]

So stop making it out as if adding this isn't going to cause problems, because it will. Guaranteed.

What problems do you foresee? A few extremists blowing their top because a guy can wear a dress (even though they already can)? Does Blizzard experience problems because guys in WoW can wear wedding dresses and slinky Valentines dresses and whatnot? No, I've never once heard anyone upset over that. I honestly can't think of any significant problem that would happen whatsoever. It sounds more like you're arguing against this just to be arguing against it.

The same kind of problems that arise from a few extremists blowing their top because a guy can't wear a dress, I suppose.

You forgot the part where it already happens and no one made a fuss about it.

[Mychael]

What problems do you foresee? A few extremists blowing their top because a guy can wear a dress (even though they already can)?

The same kind of problems that arise from a few extremists blowing their top because a guy can't wear a dress, I suppose.