The number of bad players are rising!

[Foo01]

The only real problem with this is that it's almost always one sided. Almost always. The skilled players have to slow down to the level of those who don't take the game as seriously. But if those same people are asked to pick it up just a little, rage ensues. Double standard if you will. "You have to come down to our level, but we won't budge at all for the sake of the group."

This is such the attitude of elitist. You see a person pinned in a car after an accident, whether you are a good samaritan or a first responder, would you ask them to push harder at the door or whatever to meet you half-way to help get them out?

Seriously, where do you 1% elitist get off thinking no one else want to try to their best? Or improve. Stop making that BS assumption.

BTW there is no double standard. How do you ask someone how has never had algebra to meet you half-way to solve math problem/puzzle/brain-teaser that requires some understanding of differential equations?

Additionally asking them to raise their game, should NOT involving watching videos so it has spoilers, or asking them to skip cutscenes, which would ruin their experience. People get that new fresh experience only once. Also they should NOT have to learn how speed run, since this is not the intent of the game.

Or how do you ask a newbie golfer to drive that ball another 20 yards further to meet you half-way so he isn't slowing the play thru on the course.

The answer is they can not. They need learning and practice to get there, and in this game they will get it in the duty finder. And it is NOT because they are not trying. Stop with that BS assumption.

You who has more skill, experience, gear, capability have the capacity to accommodate them, but they try as they might will not be able to change things that are mathematically impossible.

[ispano]

This is such the attitude of elitist. You see a person pinned in a car after an accident, whether you are a good samaritan or a first responder, would you ask them to push harder at the door or whatever to meet you half-way to help get them out?

Seriously, where do you 1% elitist get off thinking no one else want to try to their best? Or improve. Stop making that BS assumption.

BTW there is no double standard. How do you ask someone how has never had algebra to meet you half-way to solve math problem/puzzle/brain-teaser that requires some understanding of differential equations?

Or how do you ask a newbie golfer to drive that ball another 20 yards further to meet you half-way so he isn't slowing the play thru on the course.

The answer is they can not. They need learning and practice to get there, and in this game they will get it in the duty finder. And it is NOT because they are not trying. Stop with that BS assumption.

You who has more skill, experience, gear, capability have the capacity to accommodate them, but they try as they might will not be able to change things that are mathematically impossible.

Wow. VERY bad analogy first of all. Second, I see it in dungeons. It's not something I just imagined up. We wipe on a boss or something, I ask or give advice if I saw anything in particular. I get bitched at and we wipe again. And no, I don't call people names. Part of wanting to improve is never thinking you're doing your best, most of the time there's always something you can do better. And that's the thing, I don't expect people to know things they don't know or play on my level. But if there's a problem(caused by you) and we try to help and you don't respond, or just lash out, what do you think I'm going to think?

Dungeons have ALWAYS been a group effort. If someone doesn't want to try to compromise in ANY way, why should we play with them?

Edited in your edit. You don't get what I mean. If I see someone spamming Blizzard III, and I politely try to give them advice on a rotation, and they refuse(this has happened btw), that is a problem. That is something they could do to "meet halfway".

So, yes, there is a double standard. The same double standard that some people on the other end of the spectrum go by. The type of person you seem to be mistaking me for.

[Foo01]

Dungeons have ALWAYS been a group effort. If someone doesn't want to try to compromise in ANY way, why should we play with them?

..... You don't get what I mean. If I see someone spamming Blizzard III, and I politely try to give them advice on a rotation, and they refuse(this has happened btw), that is a problem. That is something they could do to "meet halfway".

......The type of person you seem to be mistaking me for.

I know you are playing devil advocate for them elitist. You don't have to be one to argue their point of view.

But seriously, the other player is using blizzard 3 because they think 3 is better than 1, do you not get that!? LOL. And you have the nerve to tell them to do other things.

Look I don't know how polite you were, and what led up to them lashing out, but it is rare that people not want to improve. They do NOT understand what they do not know. They are trying, and sometimes in the wrong way. They should be using blizzard 1 only, if they were NOT trying. But then again it would because they do NOT know what they do not know. Telling them to meet you halfway is just silly. The expectations that they would without you or me going out of our way to help them is simply a non-starter.

Once again, you pull down a branch for a 9 year-old to try to pluck the apple. Why can't they reach up and get it.... Well they need 4 more years of growth for starters. Or rather asking them to meet you half-way is a non-starter. And it is NOT because of the lack of trying.

[ispano]

But seriously, the other player is using blizzard 3 because they think 3 is better than 1, do you not get that!? LOL. And you have the nerve to tell them to do other things.

So no Fire spells at all, right?

Look I don't know how polite you were, and what led up to them lashing out, but it is rare that people not want to improve. They do NOT understand what they do not know. They are trying, and sometimes in the wrong way. They should be using blizzard 1 only, if they were NOT trying. But then again it would because they do NOT know what they do not know. Telling them to meet you halfway is just silly. The expectations that they would without you or me going out of our way to help them is simply a non-starter.

Once again, you pull down a branch for a 9 year-old to try to pluck the apple. Why can't they reach up and get it.... Well they need 4 more years of growth for starters. Or rather asking them to meet you half-way is a non-starter. And it is NOT because of the lack of trying.

Great way to ignore what i've said and using very bad analogies yet again. Don't use an analogy with something physically impossible to compare to something that's not physically impossible. If I give a BLM some advice, to use Fire in my previous example, and they lash out and refuse, they are in the wrong, if only for the lashing out. This is what I mean. There ARE a decent amount of people who treat games like this as 100% relaxation, which is fine by themselves or with those if a similar mindset. But that doesn't fly in a group, neither would my normal standards either, which is why I watch how the group does and pace myself that way. I don't overpull in a DF Brayflox hard for example, unless the healer asks or feels they are up to it. But does that mean each group should take much longer than normal because that BLM is just using Blizzard III and no Fire spells at all? Am I REALLY wrong for asking them to use Fire and alternate in an attempt to help the whole party?

[Foo01]

So no Fire spells at all, right?
.. snip

I don't know what you got against THM/BLMs. What if they want to be an ice wizard. What is so wrong with that. What makes you so sure you are right to tell them how they should play? You find all sorts in the duty finder.

I play a healer on and off, and on the duty finder I get tanks that does NOT or can NOT hold aggro. I don't lash out at them. I don't tell them how to play, I run towards the tank. If that is not enough, I tell the party I need help because I am getting mobbed. Surely enough, those that can will help and flash more or do whatever they want to get hold of the mobs more. Those that haven't got a clue.. well we wipe. After enough wipes, we vote abandon. It is all part of the game, sometimes it is just bad luck, just like the RNG. But you know what, it is very rare, I ran into one such players in the last 6 weeks. You make seem like they are all over the place.

But know this. I ran into this way more often, people trying to force other people to speedrun, tanks, dps, or healers. The odds are like almost 100% on duty roulette main story. Grabbing way more mobs than anyone has any business doing. Forcing people to skip cutscenes. These I see nearly once a day. Sometimes I can keep up, and sometimes I can't. I die, they wipe etc. But they almost always just run off without a word, without any attempt at communication or negotiation.

[ispano]

I don't know what you got against THM/BLMs. What if they want to be an ice wizard. What is so wrong with that. What makes you so sure you are right to tell them how they should play? You find all sorts in the duty finder.

I play a healer on and off, and on the duty finder I get tanks that does NOT or can NOT hold aggro. I don't lash out at them. I don't tell them how to play, I run towards the tank. If that is not enough, I tell the party I need help because I am getting mobbed. Surely enough, those that can will help and flash more or do whatever they want to get hold of the mobs more. Those that haven't got a clue.. well we wipe. After enough wipes, we vote abandon. It is all part of the game, sometimes it is just bad luck, just like the RNG. But you know what, it is very rare, I ran into one such players in the last 6 weeks. You make seem like they are all over the place.

But know this. I ran into this way more often, people trying to force other people to speedrun, tanks, dps, or healers. The odds are like almost 100% on duty roulette main story. Grabbing way more mobs than anyone has any business doing. Forcing people to skip cutscenes. These I see nearly once a day. Sometimes I can keep up, and sometimes I can't. I die, they wipe etc. But they almost always just run off without a word, without any attempt at communication or negotiation.

And that's what you keep skipping over. It's a GROUP effort. If people refuse to adapt, even just a tiny bit, to make said group effort go smoother, they are wrong. I don't care which side you come from.

Next, all over the place? No. But more common than the type you seem to be complaining about. I've seen the ones who want to speed run, who want people to skip cutscenes. Like one time I was tanking Praetorium, the other tank was brand new. I would not pull til he was there, and some people got upset. They could have kicked me too, which was the funny part, but never did. And here's the thing, this other tank was asking me about how he could help more. He got my comm, just for that. This is what i'm talking about.

[Foo01]

And that's what you keep skipping over. It's a GROUP effort. If people refuse to adapt, even just a tiny bit, to make said group effort go smoother, they are wrong. I don't care which side you come from.

I do NOT skip over it. I keep telling you there are some that just do that know and they won't know until they try and learn. You keep assuming they do not want to try, i.e. refuse to adapt. Actually the even the blizz 3 guy is trying to adapt, they just adapt wrong sometimes. Those that don't adapt are very few and they don't get very far.