Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

Popping Fight or Fight before Fast Blade or before Savage Blade has no difference in enmity generation. You will get 4 Fast > Savage cycles while under the buff either way. Same with the full RoH combo and the 30s version at 28+. Only during levels 26 and 27 is there any real advantage to popping FoF before Savage Blade over any other part of the combo due to 20s only covering 2.66 uses of the full combo.

Well, that's only true if you do nothing but Fastblade>Savageblade after popping it though right? If you throw 1 flash in there somewhere, you would come out ahead waiting to pop right before a Savage.

So I guess I should have worded it differently. Something like:
Popping FoF right before your highest enmity skill in your combo CAN result in more total enmity bonus from FoF. But it should never result in less.

Originally Posted by Bardo

Well, that's only true if you do nothing but Fastblade>Savageblade after popping it though right? If you throw 1 flash in there somewhere, you would come out ahead waiting to pop right before a Savage.

So I guess I should have worded it differently. Something like:
Popping FoF right before your highest enmity skill in your combo CAN result in more total enmity bonus from FoF. But it should never result in less.

While that is more correct. Interweaving Flash into your combos has little gain over a 4 Flash burst at the start of the fight(4 Flashes is the most any trash group should ever really need and put you at the 1/2 Max MP point). The diminishing returns drop on the 12s Blind after the first Flash makes trying to use it for mitigation less than viable.

A tank geared in appropriate level HQ gear should never lose a single target hate race with a level synced dps. Most peels off tanks are either 1. Another Tank fighting with you over who is tanking the target 2. A single Dps attacking a non-focus target.(Main reason marking the current target is a good idea) 3. A White Mage overhealing with AoE and HoTs. (Scholars split their hate between themselves and their pets so are unlikely to pull off you unless you mess up the pull.)

The 1980/2970 enmity potency of 4 Flashes goes a long way.

Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

While that is more correct. Interweaving Flash into your combos has little gain over a 4 Flash burst at the start of the fight(

You're 100% sure that flash is a static potency and the enmity isn't affected by whether or not the blind effect applies?

After Rage of Halone and Shield Oath, it's a joke.
It's also a complete joke for Marauder in the early levels, especially if you can cross class Invigorate.
But it's definitely more difficult in the early levels for Gladiator.

Originally Posted by Bardo

You're 100% sure that flash is a static potency and the enmity isn't affected by whether or not the blind affect applies?

Yep. Testing has shown that Flash generates 495 potency worth of enmity per use and whether or not the Blind status is applied does not effect that.

When I started running low level dungeons with friends that were overgeared and synch'd down, I also had some issues holding enmity. If you mean really low level ones (16-18 or so), then holding enmity doesn't really matter. You don't need tanks for most of those outside of boss fights.
For the rest, if you're slightly undergeared compared to the rest of your party, tell them to wait a couple of seconds for you to establish the hate. After that, you really shouldn't have adds pulled off you.

Also remember, it's everyone's job to watch the enmity. If some trigger happy dps is spamming aoe or hitting an add that's not the target, then it's their fault for pulling agro off you. Tell the healer to let them die if they don't want to play game. If the healer is spamming cure or physic when you're on 95% life, tell them to stop.

Originally Posted by Niamh_Felixis

If you mean really low level ones (16-18 or so), then holding enmity doesn't really matter.

Also remember, it's everyone's job to watch the enmity.

Yeah, the first handful of dungeons are what I'm talking about. I'm curious to hit level 26 now to see just how much of a different RoH makes. (Though it still won't be available in these dungeons.)

And YEAH... dat enmity. I learned to watch it early and still do. If I pull from a tank, I say I'm sorry. Now, I tell my friends at the start of a dungeon to help out by watching their own aggro. haha... Perhaps I should clarify and say HOW they should do this as well. >3< I know at endgame, many tanks pride themselves on not losing hate to overzealous dps and healers. (yay you guys! ) and they get used to going all out. But this isn't necessarily going to be the case at the lowest levels due to lack of skills or lack of player knowledge so I guess it won't hurt to remind people to watch themselves.

(eta: To clarify, if I'm running a dungeon with a tank that is not/will not/can not keep hate throughout, this is different and I'll offer suggestions on enmity skills.)

Originally Posted by Sadana

I'm curious to hit level 26 now to see just how much of a different RoH makes.

It's pretty huge.
With just Fastblade+Savage Blade you're doing about 375 potency in enmity per global cooldown on a single target.
Add RoH and it jumps to about 683 potency in enmity per global.

So it gets pretty close to doubling your single target enmity generation.

Originally Posted by Bardo

It's pretty huge.
With just Fastblade+Savage Blade you're doing about 375 potency in enmity per global cooldown on a single target.
Add RoH and it jumps to about 683 potency in enmity per global.

So it gets pretty close to doubling your single target enmity generation.

Whoa. That IS a big difference! :O
I should go level and try it out!

I find macros and tanking abilities don't go well together, if you need to do something quickly then you are stuck in a macro and can't do it quickly.

I find it easier to do things on the fly, the hardest dps to keep enmity off of imo is the BRD. Good BRDs have crazy single target dps and I've tanked with many who pop their cds on every trash engagement.

Just shield lob, enmity combo and do your best. It is a thankless job and not a guaranteed commendation either.

Originally Posted by Chiramu

I find macros and tanking abilities don't go well together, if you need to do something quickly then you are stuck in a macro and can't do it quickly.

I make fairly heavy use of macros. It may be different for those using keyboard+mouse but I find them very good at enhancing my tanking ability.

Here are a few of the major macros I use:

Marking Shield Lob:
/micon "Shield Lob"
/marking attack1 <t>
/ac "Rage of Halone" <t>
/ac "Shield Lob" <t>

A fairly simple macro that marks the target before using Shield Lob on them or Rage of Halone if close enough. It can also be used off GCD to change what is marked.

First Blade:

/micon "Fast Blade"
/ac "Fight or Flight" <me>
/ac "Spirits Within" <t>
/ac "Fast Blade" <t>

This macro helps me make sure to use Fight or Flight and Spirits Within as close to "on cooldown" as possible.

Convalescence:

/micon Convalescence
/ac Convalescence <me>
/p Convalescence Up! Heals Boosted for the next 20s!

A macro to tell the rest of the party when Convalescence is up. Letting the healers know when their heals are more effective.