GLA <25 and keeping enmity

[Sadana]

This is completely anecdotal, and I'm new to the game, but I find I have a lot easier time holding hate as a Marauder than a Gladiator.

Y'know, I've heard this before... Has anyone ever held an "Enmity-off" between a GLA/PLD and MRD/WAR? Same level, same gear, same level weapon, maybe no soul stone... to see who pulls and keep aggro? Parsers can also give this information, right? I'm just curious...

[SpookyGhost]

MRD wins. WAR wins. No contest. Overpower/Steel Cyclone + Berserk > anything.

Flash is your best tool for AOE aggro as GLD/PLD. Unfortunately it's a lot harder to hold aggro at a lower level because you won't have access to Shield Oath yet, but once you do it's faceroll easy. 'Til then, Flash and Riot Blade are your friend.

[Sadana]

'Til then, Flash and Riot Blade are your friend.

On one of the other multi-page guides to tanking threads, I read that the enmity gained from Flash isn't that much compared to other skills. Is this the case or no?

[SpookyGhost]

On one of the other multi-page guides to tanking threads, I read that the enmity gained from Flash isn't that much compared to other skills. Is this the case or no?

It's not as good as OP/SC but it's all you've really got for AOE aggro. But, bare in mind, as long as no one is actually AOEing you'll only need 2-3 Flashes to keep aggro off the healer. If a single DPS is pulling aggro off you it's either because they outgear you or because they're blowing CDs. FB -> SB is your optimal single target aggro combo and if someone pulls that target off you and you're spamming that then there's not a lot you can do. Thankfully most enemies hit like paper before 40-ish so you can just let them tank what they steal. Things are always rocky at the start but they even out the more abilities you get - especially when you get RoH, that solves a lotttttt of problems.

[Ooshima]

On one of the other multi-page guides to tanking threads, I read that the enmity gained from Flash isn't that much compared to other skills. Is this the case or no?

Yes, but it does help you to hold group head early. I have both GLA and MRD past 25 and holding hate doesn't seem to be a problem for me. Yeah at times one odd mob just goes to the healer, I think it's because it took too long to kill the mob. But even so, one hit of the SB or even a shield lob should get it back. If you need to shield lob or hit a few times to grab it back, it meant that you're holding hate a little too loose.

Mark your targets before you engage, open with FoF if avail. Shield lob, flash 3 times for a start since you had issue. FB=>SB combo it 2 times and see if it's dying (really, low level mobs dies very fast, especially if you have level synced DPS). If the mob is left with say 30% HP, don't bother with it anymore. Move to targert #2, FB=>Riot Blade it to recover MP. Once target 1 is dead and your DPS move over to target 2, throw in a FB=>SB combo if mob is dying or 2 FB=SB if still have significant HP left. Again, once it's on low HP, leave it to your DPS to kill, move on to target #3 (usually the last mob for typical pulls) with FB=>RB if you still need to recover MP.

Typically healers shouldn't even pull aggro off any mobs in this way at all, unless either the pack took too long to kill (something wrong with DPS?) and resulted in healer generating too much aggro with healing you, or your DPS doesn't dodge shit and resulted in healers generating too much aggro again. As a tank, play by ear. Took too long to kill and DPS eating shit dmg? Check the emity bar of your current mob and next mob. If you hold significant aggro (ie #2 aggro holder still far to overtake), you should throw a FB=SB combo on the next mob to hold hate.

[Wadoka]

Y'know, I've heard this before... Has anyone ever held an "Enmity-off" between a GLA/PLD and MRD/WAR? Same level, same gear, same level weapon, maybe no soul stone

MRD wins. WAR wins. No contest.

Anecdotally, this isn't always true. I would offer the example of the FATE "Roc and a Hard Place" in Coerthas. I ran that fate one time as a Paladin, with a Warrior FATE-mate. The WAR established aggro on the ROC but over the next 3 minutes (yes it took that long) we had a "Hate Race" and I caught up and stole the aggro from the WAR, using Flash only when the diminishing-returns reset, and using basic RoH combos (no Provoke).

I don't know if we were equal iLevel at the time. We were equal Level-level

***

As has been said, you'll want to add "Flight or Fight to your opening rotation, before Shield Lob. And pop it every time it comes off cooldown.

***

As far as "Show Some Leg" - you know that only works against heterosexual/bisexual male and homosexual/bisexual female *humanoids*, right? Useless otherwise

[Ultimatecalibur]

Popping Fight or Flight right before you use Shield Lob to pull is a waste of at least a few seconds of increased damage/enmity. Especially if you are going to follow things up with Flash spam to anchor the rest of the pull.

Popping Fight or Fight before Fast Blade or before Savage Blade has no difference in enmity generation. You will get 4 Fast > Savage cycles while under the buff either way. Same with the full RoH combo and the 30s version at 28+. Only during levels 26 and 27 is there any real advantage to popping FoF before Savage Blade over any other part of the combo due to 20s only covering 2.66 uses of the full combo.

When spamming Flash at the start of a fight with multiple monster you want to use it until you are down to about 1/2 MP. This should be about 3 or 4 uses and allow you to recover to full MP before you go to the next group without having any reason to stop and rest to recover MP.

[Sadana]

As far as "Show Some Leg" - you know that only works against heterosexual/bisexual male and homosexual/bisexual female *humanoids*, right? Useless otherwise

LOL. It was more to make mobs think "dinner" rather than "sexy fun time". xDDDDD Hey... whatever works.



As far as folks suggesting I use Flash more... I'm using it until I'm oom unless the mobs are killed quickly. As I stated before, I pop Flash a couple times after Shield Lobbing the first target. Then I intersperse Flash every few to 5 hits which I share between the enemies.

A few responses on my blog about this have also mentioned "Oh, if someone in your party is overgeared, you will lose hate to them." What I want to know is why? If the new tank has to struggle so much against 50s in the DF/DR, isn't this one more problem that creates the tank shortage? I love helping new people and thought learning to play a tank role would help lots... but, because of this problem, I'm not about to go into the DF. And that defeats the whole purpose.

[Cap75]

On one of the other multi-page guides to tanking threads, I read that the enmity gained from Flash isn't that much compared to other skills. Is this the case or no?

I'd like to know this too. In my limited experience I had to spam the crap out of it to hold mobs while, in the dungeon/situation, with a Marauder a single Overpower just grabbed everything with no issue. With my gladiator I'd often get into rather comical situations where a mob would literally pendulum back and forth between me and a DPS because I'd lose aggro for a portion of my rotation.

Flash doesn't do damage correct? Is that why it doesn't pull aggro quite like Overpower?

[Sadana]

I'd like to know this too. In my limited experience I had to spam the crap out of it to hold mobs while, in the dungeon/situation, with a Marauder a single Overpower just grabbed everything with no issue. With my gladiator I'd often get into rather comical situations where a mob would literally pendulum back and forth between me and a DPS because I'd lose aggro for a portion of my rotation.

Flash doesn't do damage correct? Is that why it doesn't pull aggro quite like Overpower?

It does not do any damage. It's a "Hey look at me dammit!" move. Overpower is a frontal cone strike. Flash is a limited circle around you as far as range goes. You have to keep this in mind when wrangling mobs. I tend to run into and around the mob crowd spamming Flash in order to get every mobs' attention.