DPS Misconceptions

[Anienai]

troll thread. buh bye now.

pretty much

[givemeraptors]

What I get from him is he thinks that DPS get ragged on too much so he rags on tanks and healers. People like this create a rift in the community.

Where am I ragging on tanks and healers? My entire post is about how people have the misconception that DPS a) don't know fights, and b) don't influence fights as much as tanks or healers. I'm baffled at how you take a statement like "In some cases a healer is the person who can know the least amount and get away with it," and take it to mean, "healers don't ever need to know anything about a fight to get the job done".

I'm not even pointing the finger at tanks and healers and saying "you guys keep telling everyone that DPS are useless!" And I acknowledged that I could have been clearer at separating player ability from role derps, so I can't imagine why you're clinging to a blatantly false notion.

[drslaughtrr]

As a whm I do all I can to help in fight. When I have a good group and don't have to heal as much I cleric stance and spam Dps. Like others have said its a full group effort. I also try not to blame other roles cause the player could be having an off day. Sometimes I crash and burn a simple run. I started tank role to help me understand how to heal them better and I'm doing Dps to learn how to better chase them for heals since we healers just stand in one spot.

[AmyNeudaiz]

I can't imagine why you're clinging to a blatantly false notion.

You have stated the following in this thread:
DPS will know a fight inherently better than a tank or healer
Healers add nothing to help DPS in a run
Tank and healer mechanics are easier compared to DPS mechanics
Healers can get away with not knowing mechanics and tanks too

And you say these things because people rag on DPS.. How can one not take this as borderline sticking your tongue out and saying "I know you are but what am I"?

[skaterger]

So if i play all three roles, suddenly I become more knowledgeable running the same instance on my dps than my healer or tank?

[HoolieWho]

I think you take both of your DPS misconceptions out of context and go out of your way to misinterpret their common meanings.

1) Tanks (or healers) know the fight best.

In dungeons the tank leads the party, pulling mobs and controlling aggro and mob positioning. It doesn't matter if the rest of the party has this knowledge, it is the tank's responsibility. In primal fights and in Coil there is more responsibility to go around. "Tank has to know the dungeon," is a quote I can agree with though. Mostly healers follow the tank and DPS follow the mob the tank has selected.

2) DPS derps/bad DPS aren't noticeable.

If DPS is bad overall, that is easy to see. It's harder to single out which of your DPS is at fault and to what extent.

[givemeraptors]

You have stated the following in this thread:
1)DPS will know a fight inherently better than a tank or healer
2)Healers add nothing to help DPS in a run
3)Tank and healer mechanics are easier compared to DPS mechanics
4)Healers can get away with not knowing mechanics and tanks too

1) The way current responsibilities are delegated, if 4/8 people who were totally new to a fight were given a list of things typically assigned their role and told to focus on those things only I think there are many fights where a DPS would be the most knowledgeable overall, though the best players would combine knowledge from all three roles. Obviously most people don't play in a vacuum, and it's really up to players what they do and don't know, but again, I'm talking about roles here and the way those roles are talked about in general, hence why the first subtitle is "tanks/healers know the fight better" not "people who play tanks or healers know the fight better".

2) I used Pharos as one example where a healer doesn't really add much to DPS beyond keeping them alive (which is a redundant point to make anyway) and you somehow took that to mean always. I can't help your reading comprehension there. Selene inherently disproves this point, though I don't use her in Pharos. As for a healer deciding to DPS, that is entirely up to a healer and beyond their job description.

3) Again, you took sometimes to mean always. Tanking Titan HM is absurdly easy, healers and DPS have it rough. Knowing where to lead Garuda and her sisters/provoke Spiny is rough on tanks, much easier on healers and DPS.

4) I will repeat a third time, sometimes but not always. Tanks may not (and really don't need to know) that a purple tether will form a destructive orb on the final boss of AK. Heck, they don't even need to know that adds spawn. All they have to do is stand in a corner and button mash. As long as the other roles know what they're supposed to do, that knowledge is completely irrelevant to a tank FOR. THAT. FIGHT. NOT. EVERY. FIGHT. WORKS. LIKE. THAT.

[Madoka]

run into SMNs who don't use dots

Help them by killing them.

[AmyNeudaiz]

1) You are incorrect. Your reasoning earlier was that tanks and healers get tunnel visioned and that DPS had to deal with certain mechanics while ignoring the fact that ALL. ROLES. HAVE. DIFFERENT. AND. INEQUATABLE. MECHANICS. This is my main point here, I don't know why it hasn't gone through your head yet. Also, DPS get tunnel visioned too, you failed to mention that earlier because it would negate a prior point you made. Funny how bias works like that.

2) Yes, healers do add to DPS in all situations. Keeping them alive, although a given, is not the only thing a healer can do. Since you're a fan of throwing out cherry picked examples, WP is a perfect example. DPS can fight on the main boss while a Whm Holy spams the adds. Or better yet, in Twintania having the Sch throw out DoT's on Twin to make Twister phase go by faster. It is not beyond a healer's job description because all roles should do everything they can to make a run go smoother. This includes doing DPS on healer.

3) That is the most ambiguous point to make. Why even say it in the first place then?

4) Again being ambiguous with your points. "Tanks and Healers have it easy! All you have to do is take damage or heal.....errrr...sometimes...?"

You can't state double standards to your own argument and expect people to take you seriously.

[givemeraptors]

1) You are incorrect. Your reasoning earlier was that tanks and healers get tunnel visioned and that DPS had to deal with certain mechanics while ignoring the fact that ALL. ROLES. HAVE. DIFFERENT. AND. INEQUATABLE. MECHANICS. This is my main point here, I don't know why it hasn't gone through your head yet. Also, DPS get tunnel visioned too, you failed to mention that earlier because it would negate a prior point you made. Funny how bias works like that.

2) Yes, healers do add to DPS in all situations. Keeping them alive, although a given, is not the only thing a healer can do. Since you're a fan of throwing out cherry picked examples, WP is a perfect example. DPS can fight on the main boss while a Whm Holy spams the adds. Or better yet, in Twintania having the Sch throw out DoT's on Twin to make Twister phase go by faster. It is not beyond a healer's job description because all roles should do everything they can to make a run go smoother. This includes doing DPS on healer.

3) That is the most ambiguous point to make. Why even say it in the first place then?

4) Again being ambiguous with your points. "Tanks and Healers have it easy! All you have to do is take damage or heal.....errrr...sometimes...?"

You can't state double standards to your own argument and expect people to take you seriously.

Frankly, I don't think you're really understanding what I'm trying to say because we almost completely agree on #2 and you don't even see it. You're calling me biased but you can't seem to let go of what you think I'm saying for what I'm actually saying, so I'm not going to continue this debate.