Game is in a desperate need of challenge.

[Doo]

I agree, content should be designed to be challenging. However, if you honestly think that there has to be some reward at the end of it, then you are only proving my point. You don't want the challenge, you want the trophy for beating said challenge. The only thing a trophy is good for is showing it off and hoping for awe from others. If it was for your own satisfaction you wouldn't need the trophy.

Nope, wanting to be rewarded fairly doesn't mean you don't want a challenge. It doesn't have to be one or the other. Not sure why it's hard to understand, it's the same in all console FF games when you do challenging content, you get rewarded with the best gear.

[L-D-Omlette]

Nope, wanting to be rewarded fairly doesn't mean you don't want a challenge. It doesn't have to be one or the other. Not sure why it's hard to understand, it's the same in all console FF games when you do challenging content, you get rewarded with the best gear.

Not always. Omega Weapon from VIII comes to mind. There are several games that have bosses just for a challenge. Why does that concept fall flat when its an mmo?

[Chayala]

Hah. Funny point about FFXI. People don't play it because it's too hard when you can see what MMo's can be. If that was the case EQ would be gone and FFXI would never have made it where it is. FFXI's population declined when it broke level cap and changed how it wanted everything to work...

[Swagcity]

This game is in desperate need of the expansion.

[skaterger]

Ah the good old days where people actually had to be competent and dedicated enough to get the best items in the game. Anyone remember benediction/anathema staff from wow? Sadly now if they incorporated this into ffxiv, 99% of the population would complain its too hard or too consuming to get it. And hence we have ffxiv as it is today..

[Anty]

Everyone is always afraid of consequences of what content may bring is sad because it limits variety. There's still plenty of jerkassery and e-peen waving currently no matter how much you try to dumb the game down.

if people have to actually work together on different goals to achieve something they get a better feeling for the community - only DF- Parties etc. will never be able to give that feeling to anyone.
Due to the fact that all content is fast learnable and the only real challenge is "lag"... ppl get it done fast, and they only know "fast". They completely lose patience. Don't help eachother etc. etc.
They rather wait 5 hrs to get their "perfect" setup (by setting i lvl to almost 90 for content that can be done with ilvl65) - which might also fail - then get someone slightly new and teach them (which in the long run is better for everyone, since more ppl know how to accomplish certain goals).

I think overall harder content and more real group orientation is a better countermeasure to "jerkassery and e-peen waving", since the people then don't forget that it used to be a challenge for them back in the days.
The fact that we get higher dungeons/primals with like every pach/2nd patch makes it extremely casual unfriendly. Since nobody wants to do the older content anymore since its "old" and gear there just sux.

People will get left behind much faster that way. I never felt in a rush in ffxi, i always had goals even at times when i played that game like crazy.
And i was FAR away from many endgamers, yet i had many friends who did endgame, and had slightly better gear, yet you still did so many things with them. There was so much other stuff to do.
Things to try, options to try out, etc. And it was far more rewarding to help people then to get gear.
People in general were less selfish since they remembered how it was.

Nobody here remembers how hard things were, since you tried them 3-10 times max. and got it done.

[Rakashu]

I agree mr. OP. I think a healthy mix of both is ideal. I enjoy the current looting system because it does allow me to be more relaxed about my play time but at the same time I wish there were some special items to farm i.e. super rare drops with low drop chances / rare crafting materials etc. for those lonely nights when I just want to grind.

this is exactly what I was trying to say, thank you.

[KupoNuts]

MMO gamers then: Wow, this guy's gear is epic! I wonder where and how he got it. One day, I will have the same gear as him. I know there's a journey ahead of me, but it's going to be fun and challenging, and I'll be getting a reward for it someday. It's a journey that matters, and reward is only a bonus.

MMO gamers now: Oh my god! It took me WHOLE WEEK to get to maximum level! What's wrong with duty finder? It takes me whole 5 minutes to get into a dungeon! Also, this guy has better gear than me! That means he has more time to play than me! What about me, I pay for this game too, but I can only log in for two hours a day! I want his gear, now! Give it to me or I'll quit!

/violin

[LalaRu]

Ah the good old days where people actually had to be competent and dedicated enough to get the best items in the game.

If the "old times" are the ones in which the only rewarded people were the nolifers that keeps logged 24/7, maybe sharing the same account between friends, and the "normal" people who have a life and job were left out in toto and cannot even dream about that rewards, I am very happy that times had an end, and welcome FFXIV.

[TeaTimeBear]

MMO gamers then: Wow, this guy's gear is epic! I wonder where and how he got it. One day, I will have the same gear as him. I know there's a journey ahead of me, but it's going to be fun and challenging, and I'll be getting a reward for it someday. It's a journey that matters, and reward is only a bonus.

MMO gamers now: Oh my god! It took me WHOLE WEEK to get to maximum level! What's wrong with duty finder? It takes me whole 5 minutes to get into a dungeon! Also, this guy has better gear than me! That means he has more time to play than me! What about me, I pay for this game too, but I can only log in for two hours a day! I want his gear, now! Give it to me or I'll quit!

/violin

Ah ha ha..

Let's not forget...MMO gamers now: Everything is easy no matter what game it is or the genre, I just look up a vid to figure it out but I'm the best and it's all to easy!