Game is in a desperate need of challenge.

[TheUltimate3]

what's the harm in adding even more challenging content? Like something tiered higher than coil.

The issue is generally, resources. To use the dreaded WoW example, they made a bunch of high end raids that were damn near masterpieces. And those resources were generally wasted because only about 5-10% of their entire player base ever got to see said content until they nerfed everything so hard that it was a joke.

One could argue it is better to keep things..."reasonable" than to waste time on content very little will actually see. And then when you ask "Having the top tier people be the only one to see is worth it!", it really isn't and typically is only a source of e-peen waving, which in turn leads to jerkassery, whether you like to believe that or not.

[Doo]

Everyone is always afraid of consequences of what content may bring is sad because it limits variety. There's still plenty of jerkassery and e-peen waving currently no matter how much you try to dumb the game down.

[ulti_19]

When it comes to challenge, I don't think grinding endlessly forever for a single item is difficult. It is time consuming and nothing more, also providing the company making the game an easy way out of meaningful content. People complain for harder content, but how many have beaten titan ex, and all coil etc. How many have all the achievements, that's a pretty annoying grind. Grinding doesn't mean difficulty, having everything doesn't make you good, it means you spent tons of time on it. Making a difficult boss for example would mix rotation of bosses phase mixed with completely random targeting and smart ai, to actually go after the healer etc not just highest agro. If they really wanted to make things difficult, then everyone would start to cry about not being able to beat anything. Then they would nerf it, and ppl will cry about it being too easy, etc.

[L-D-Omlette]

People don't want a challenge. If this were true people would run content at the minimum iLvL required for it. Or they would actually run PS when the get it in roulette. All people really want is that next "trophy." They want some form of recognition for completing a perceived challenge.

If you really want a challenge like you are clamoring for, then go create a challenge. Find a FATE boss to solo, run a dungeon in bikinis, something. Don't pretend to want challenging content when all you really want is for other players to say "omg, you're amazeballs, you did [insert here]!!!"

[Doo]

People don't want a challenge. If this were true people would run content at the minimum iLvL required for it. Or they would actually run PS when the get it in roulette.

Gimping yourself to create challenge isn't fun, content should be designed that way. Of course the reward has to fit the difficulty as well. If easy content doesn't offer any rewards, no one would do it. Just like getting a teleport ticket free for 6 months of subbing wouldn't be a good reward.


"If you really want a challenge you should play with 7 bad players in Titan Extreme"

[Aery]

Most everyone would rather like to play in the gear they have acquired obviously.
It's part of progressing, getting stronger and feeling accomplished.

Also, this kind of a poor excuse to justify weak / 'cheap' content lol

[Cherie]

I have a feeling when 2.2 comes out you will see a bunch of people selling T5 Twintania runs.

Where have you been? This already happens right now! I can log onto Leviathan at any hour and there are 1 or 2 advertisements in Party Finder selling T5 runs and all EX primals.

The new thing that will happen in 2.2 is that you can throw a pug of people together that have never seen Twintania ever, and still kill her.

The first few weeks, it will require some vague explaination, like "like focus target her after the snakes die so you can watch for her to cast twister, then move when you see it". After a few stacks of echo buff, which it will increase as the weeks progress per the live video discussions SE has put out, it will be so much easier. You might not need to explain anything. Like twisters? Divebombs? Omnomnom, those are tasty! They tickle a bit! People could get hit around like pinballs and still live.

I remember a friend of mine that killed twintania the first time recently. He had never actually done the fight prior to that day. At the moment with no echo buff or anything, as long as most of your party has done it before, you can still probably kill it. You could have 2 people that haven't even watched a youtube video. You do currently need a majority that know what to do. Not for long though!

[Seraphe]

snip

There are quite a few people like me that always go the easiest way:

Do I like fast travel in Skyrim? -> No, it ruins my "immersion"
Do I use it? -> Of course, it makes my life easier.
Do I stick to the game for a long time? -> Nope.

Same goes with T5 or AF2.. Since I just started playing again and my characters aren't geared due to the weekly cap do I even bother? No. iLvl90 craftable gear is on it's way.
Do I bother beating T5? Nope, I'll give it a shot when i90 gear comes

I'll ALWAYS take the easiest way. But don't get me wrong. I want the challenge. Make it hard and I'll try to beat it but when I have to make my own challenges (Skyrim w/o fast travel, Beating T5 with less than i90 gear that close to the patch etc) I just quit for a while like I did before

[L-D-Omlette]

Gimping yourself to create challenge isn't fun, content should be designed that way. Of course the reward has to fit the difficulty as well

I agree, content should be designed to be challenging. However, if you honestly think that there has to be some reward at the end of it, then you are only proving my point. You don't want the challenge, you want the trophy for beating said challenge. The only thing a trophy is good for is showing it off and hoping for awe from others. If it was for your own satisfaction you wouldn't need the trophy.

I don't care if that's your goal or not, I'm just calling a spade a spade. So again, don't pretend you want the challenge when you really want the recognition.

There are quite a few people like me that always go the easiest way:

Do I like fast travel in Skyrim? -> No, it ruins my "immersion"
Do I use it? -> Of course, it makes my life easier.
Do I stick to the game for a long time? -> Nope.

Same goes with T5 or AF2.. Since I just started playing again and my characters aren't geared due to the weekly cap do I even bother? No. iLvl90 craftable gear is on it's way.
Do I bother beating T5? Nope, I'll give it a shot when i90 gear comes

I'll ALWAYS take the easiest way. But don't get me wrong. I want the challenge. Make it hard and I'll try to beat it but when I have to make my own challenges (Skyrim w/o fast travel, Beating T5 with less than i90 gear that close to the patch etc) I just quit for a while like I did before

Which is all well and good, you're being honest with yourself. I'm merely stating that many, if not most, say they want a challenge, but are delusional about it.

[Cherie]

People don't want a challenge. If this were true people would run content at the minimum iLvL required for it. Or they would actually run PS when the get it in roulette. All people really want is that next "trophy." They want some form of recognition for completing a perceived challenge.

If you really want a challenge like you are clamoring for, then go create a challenge. Find a FATE boss to solo, run a dungeon in bikinis, something. Don't pretend to want challenging content when all you really want is for other players to say "omg, you're amazeballs, you did [insert here]!!!"

That's a kind of sweeping generalization. There is a difference between wanting some trophy and having a reason to do some challenge.

Like would people go to college if you didn't get some kind of reward for doing it? If you could work at McDonalds for the rest of your life and get the same pay as a doctor, would you? (That's the real reason people drop if they get PS, they would rather do a easy dungeon for the same reward. If PS actually dropped more tomes, people would run it more. I think you know this.)

Some people do the things you describe. They try to make their own challenges. We aren't like some kids playing in the background with sticks and rocks. We are paying for a game, we expect to not have to make up our own game to have fun.

Games should have some "carrot to chase". I mean, should Mario get no gold coins on his journey? Isn't it more fun to collect them? Luigi isn't going to freak out if Mario gets more coins than him. If Luigi does, he needs to chill out! Freaking out cause some player has completed more of a MMO than you is just as bad as some player showing off their new gear to strangers fishing for attention imho.