Parsers

[KyroeFelix]

Competent party leaders know when to account mechanics for a dip in dps. Come back later with a valid argument.

Also, you can just edit your post to get around the character limit, rather than double posting.

[LoganBGone]

Competent party leaders know when to account mechanics for a dip in dps. Come back later with a valid argument.

.

My post has nothing to do with "competent party leaders" it has to do with Parser users. A "competent party leader" does not need to reply on a Parser. IF they do then they are not really competent.

[KyroeFelix]

My post has nothing to do with "competent party leaders" it has to do with Parser users. A "competent party leader" does not need to reply on a Parser. IF they do then they are not really competent.

I know plenty of people who use a parser and understand simple facts about the game that prevent people from performing "max dps". No one is going to hold a dps player responsible for drops in damage during a conflag spike or if they need to kite something like in T1. Like I said, come back with a valid argument.

[LoganBGone]

I know plenty of people who use a parser and understand simple facts about the game that prevent people from performing "max dps". Like I said, come back with a valid argument.

So..because "you" know plenty of people that use it that way. I guess your statement is valid enough to say the whole community is like this...Sorry it does not work that way. Just because u know some people that use it, as you say. Does not mean that there aren't people who use it how I say. And as I said before, those people you know obviously don't understand stand that much of the game if they have to use a third party program to tell them if someone is doing max Dps. When im a party leader I do not need a program to tell if someone is doing their job. If the person keeps dying then I will help them on how to avoid things. As long as the job gets done then u are playing properly. I can look at their character to see if they are actually playing or just spamming 2 moves.

[Sunarie]

I will say this again.. people who are jerks are jerks with or without the help of a parser. The parser only gives them something additional to be a jerk about. They're still gonna be that person that lashes out at a party after wipe, or insults other dps with no semblance of being constructive. Parsers do not magically turn anyone into a jerk.

There are two sides to this coin. Not everyone only plays MMOs for interactions, as crazy as that sounds, first and foremost. I play for both interaction -and- progression. If enough of my friends stop playing, I will quit an MMO. Same as I will eventually get bored if we aren't making progress end game and quit. It goes both ways. So in static runs, or even party finder runs where people are expected to hold their weight, I don't really think it's fair for the 7 other players in your party if a dps cut off for a dps race is a certain point and you aren't maintaining it because you haven't looked into your cooldowns. I understand that side of the argument just fine. I also understand that people will use a parser to arbitrarily raise dps requirements on fights (the same thing I've seen people do with ilvl) and that some people (who were already jerks) will use it to call out dps in DF runs and the like.

Both sides have valid reasons for wanting or not wanting a parser. I'm in the group that doesn't want to take a useful tool away from everyone just because some might misuse it. I also make sure that I'm running with like-minded individuals when I do things (which I think all people should do). If you need to learn a fight, join a learning group and all that good stuff. We aren't elitist, we're more than happy to help those who have a problem with dps, tanking, or healing get better.. but we certainly want people willing to put the same amount of effort into making sure they're doing well.. if after weeks you're not showing any signs of improvement, and we continually have to repeat things to you.. then you aren't putting in the effort and we will probably find a replacement for you in the progression set. We'll still run lesser content with you, that you can be carried through.

To the whole "you can see it without a parser bit".. I bet you can.. but with Twintania, Titan, Garuda.. I'm more paying attention to the things I'm tanking, the boss's rotation, and the things I'm dodging than I am a specific person to see if maybe the right buffs aren't flashing up on them. It's a bit ridiculous to expect people to pay attention to all a boss's mechanics, plus track 7 other people in the party (in which you'd also have to know the correct rotations for every class by heart to make sure they're doing it right). But somehow expecting a person to do that is fine, but expecting someone to hold their dps for fights that do have dps checks isn't?

I don't hold any delusions SE will officially allow parsers either... this is the company that won't let us send whispers in dungeons cause they're afraid players will get harassed.

[KyroeFelix]

I can look at their character to see if they are actually playing or just spamming 2 moves.

So because you watch someone pop all their cooldowns and use all of their physical damage skills, that means they are playing properly and contributing sufficiently to the damage pool? Not at all. I get the argument that if the job gets done, it's a good day. But if someone can improve and you have a tool to help you show them, why wouldn't you use it? THAT is what most groups running a parse do with the information.

And as I said before, those people you know obviously don't understand stand that much of the game if they have to use a third party program to tell them if someone is doing max Dps.

Using a parse to pull information doesn't mean you don't understand the game. That's like telling someone who uses a graphing calculator they don't understand graphing because they didn't do it by hand.

To the whole "you can see it without a parser bit".. I bet you can.. but with Twintania, Titan, Garuda.. I'm more paying attention to the things I'm tanking, the boss's rotation, and the things I'm dodging than I am a specific person to see if maybe the right buffs aren't flashing up on them. It's a bit ridiculous to expect people to pay attention to all a boss's mechanics, plus track 7 other people in the party (in which you'd also have to know the correct rotations for every class by heart to make sure they're doing it right). But somehow expecting a person to do that is fine, but expecting someone to hold their dps for fights that do have dps checks isn't?

Also, SO MUCH THIS^^^^

[LoganBGone]

The fights you just named are basically all about Boss rotations. There is no need for Parsers in any of those fights. You can tell if people are slacking from how long the fight lasts, to if the boss is adding in more of their rotations because you are taking long and then there is enraged mode boss for when you take really long. When people keep dying its prob because they refuse to learn the boss Rotations. But that is something that can easily be taught. I cant tell if you like parsers or not from what you wrote xD.

P.s Can you tell me how you are able to write so much x.x I feel as if im limited to writing.

[KyroeFelix]

Also, you can just edit your post to get around the character limit..

P.s Can you tell me how you are able to write so much x.x I feel as if im limited to writing.

As quoted above.

[rhemi1]

snip

You can tell the boss is dying slowly, or mechanics aren't meeting their required checks, but you can't tell who or why. Sure, I could keep my eyes glued on the Dragoon the whole fight to ensure he always have Heavy Thrust up, and watch the Black Mage to ensure they're always doing their correct, optimal rotation, but there are other things to worry about. Especially in Twintania...that is not all 'boss rotations'. If your dps is lacking, you WILL wipe at one of the many dps checks in that fight, be it conflags, snakes, dreadknights or just the plain old enrage. Titan? You won't get heart down, and even if you do, you'll lose to attrition in the end if your dps is too slow. Even something like Turn 4, if your dps is too slow, you'll end up with unrecoverable situations such as the Dreadnoughts eating spiders because they didn't die fast enough.
Parsers are tools, and how they're used depends entirely on the person. They help a lot when trying to determine who needs help and how, but no decent raid leader RELIES on them.

I don't know why people get so hung up on helpful tools, there to aid them. Sure, a jerk can use them to harass, but guess what? Jerks are jerks. Remove the parser, that jerk is still, well, a jerk. He's not going to become a nice person, suddenly.

[Araeya]

You realize clinical depression, and to a larger extent mental illnesses is as debilitating an illness as cancer or HIV is right?.

While I understand your point, I, for the most part disagree. Because I feel strongly that we are stripping our population of the essential strengths they need to get through life and not break under the pressure, does that mean I must know nothing about what it is to struggle with debilitating illness (be it mental or physical)? There are plenty of people who fit your description of mentally or physically ill who game on a regular basis and don't pay any mind at all to the people whose sole purpose in life seems to be spreading misery. I don't condone the poor treatment of others, by the way, especially without provocation. I also don't condone coddling. Coping skills outweigh coddling any day of the week.

We're talking school-yard nonsense here. There is a major difference between someone telling you that you're not doing well in a boss fight on a video game and them telling you that you're worthless and should go kill yourself (which even I agree is on the severe side and report when I see it). Yes, there IS a huge difference between being raped and being told you suck at a game. The bigger issue is just that - people are losing the ability to differentiate between what is truly a threat and what is just silliness. Coddling does not and will not remedy that issue.

So, no, I don't think that severe bullying is OK. I don't think the gay kid getting the shit kicked out of him every week is OK. I don't think the girl being touched inappropriately by her school mates is OK. I don't think a lot of things are OK. I think that we need to be teaching people how to cope with the things that are, in the grand scheme of things, minor... you know, like being asked if you're a troll because your dps is bad in a video game. And I maintain that unless someone has been violent toward you, or is threatening to be, most of that shit can be shrugged off. If someone over there beats the crap out of a random stranger for wearing an ugly hat, I will absolutely agree that repercussions for the aggressor are in order. If, instead, he just says, "Your hat is ugly, bro, lolwhateverstupiditypeoplespout", I'll just think to myself that the guy is an idiot and continue on my way.

The thing that stands out the most to me about this idea that people who are unstable enough to take drastic measures when they feel 'bullied' on the internet is that they are even putting themselves in that position to begin with. They don't need video games. They need medical treatment. Being 'bullied' (in this case, performing poorly and that being pointed out) in a video game is a pretty avoidable experience if a person lacks the basic social skills to cope with it. You wouldn't expect a person in a wheelchair to use train tracks as sidewalks, would you? Personal responsibility. In the end, it is always your responsibility to decide how to handle what life throws at you. Perhaps bullying is a relative term insofar as it is really a matter of personal perception, but I fear we are erring on the wrong side of it.

This conversation is certainly getting windy.