Observations on DPS in End Game

[bokchoykn]

snip

I didn't say that using parsers to compete with each other is a bad thing. I do it all the time. It's fun taunting your friend when you outparse him, and being taunted when he outparses you. It's fun and it drives you to do better.

I was only making a point that some people dislike parsers because they think its only purpose to to create a DPS contest. They don't see the other purposes and benefits of parsers and that's why they think they're pointless.

The rest of your post accurately describes what I'm trying to say. Thank you!

[Rein-Yagami]

I'm sorry but you sound like a really mad person. While I don't agree 100% with the OP, I think you both are misinterpreting each other but you are just being a dick about it.

Yup, I actually tempered my original first response to this thread quite a bit~ it was their decision to equate "ability to do x/y/z" with "the game doesn't give a fuck, why should I? I'll be an elitist bitch" that pissed me off sufficiently to no longer care how I came across~

[LordSliver]

The issue here is players do not accommodate for anything when it comes to this game. Its hard to queue up for these endgame fights and PF is usually full people looking for people that know the fight not anyone that is learning the fight. So sometimes people just can't find groups that are willing to work with them and if the group fails, instead of trying to figure a way to make the fight work several more times people are hold hostage to that abandon button. People vote to abandon dungeons like it is their job, it really is ridiculous the lack of trying people do in this game.

You wanna complain about DPS and other classes not pulling their weight well look at how easily people choose to abandon a dungeon on the first wipe with 60+ minutes still on the clock, plenty of time to fix everyones mistakes.

[bokchoykn]

Yup, I actually tempered my original first response to this thread quite a bit~ it was their decision to equate "ability to do x/y/z" with "the game doesn't give a fuck, why should I? I'll be an elitist bitch" that pissed me off sufficiently to no longer care how I came across~

Way to misinterpret everything I've said and then put words into my mouth.

[Pots_Talos]

A few weeks ago, one of my static members ran a parser for our coil run. Our DPS has always been good/great but once he announced scores everyone dug in and unzipped their pants to show how big their DPS was. It was the sloppiest run we ever did (mostly because our bard didn't ballad and missed High voltages) but it was also our fastest. Fun times.

[Rein-Yagami]

Way to misinterpret everything I've said and then put words into my mouth.

Coming from little miss "lets misinterpret everything I said in my first response" that rings fairly hollow~

[bokchoykn]

Coming from little miss "lets misinterpret everything I said in my first response" that rings fairly hollow~

I dunno if it's because English isn't your first language, but I have a hard time grasping what you are trying to say and you obviously have a hard time grasping what I'm trying to say. I still don't really get your point at all.

The OP is about improving your play and the barriers that prevent players from doing so.

It has nothing to do with forcing everyone to play the game at a higher level of intensity than they want to. If you are a casual player and aren't concerned with playing the game at a higher level, that's great. This topic might not pertain to you and it might concern or interest you at all, which is fine by me.

It has nothing to do with shifting blame from tanks to DPS. It's about the double-standard that exists where Tanks and healers must learn their class to satisfy their teammates and DPS generally doesn't.

You've misinterpreted the meaning of my post in a way that offends you.

[bokchoykn]

tldr If a random dps does not live up to your "standards", but is trying his hardest and done all he could (read rotations, practice on dummy) How will you label him then?

If the effort is there, I respect that. Even if the effort is not there (because not everyone cares about being skilled at this video game) I even respect that too. I don't expect all players to be pros. Some will never be good enough to defeat Titan HM without a carry, etc... That's perfectly fine.

The entire point of the post is that the road to improvement, for the ones who wish to travel it, has many barriers set by the nature of the game and the ignorance of the community.

• The importance of DPS output is underrated, even by DD themselves, thus reducing players' incentive from improving this facet of their play.
  
• Without third party parsers, the game does very little to facilitate the improvement of DPS output.
  
• DDs are not held to the same standard as Tanks or Healers, further reducing their incentive to improve.

My intended message is to break these barriers by:

• Understanding and acknowledging the importance of DPS and incorporating it into your play.
  
• Utilizing the available tools that can facilitate the improvement of DPS, and do it in such a way that won't risk getting you banned.
  
• Holding yourself and your teammates to a higher standard, regardless of role. In a constructive way, of course.

[Bixby]

Oh but if a drg doesn't use heavy thrust, or a blm use thundercloud procs that'll wipe the party?

I've seen tanks in endgame content that are constantly on the verge of losing aggro during bosses~ but we can't blame the tank if aggro is lost and that causes a wipe right? Poor tanks~ We'll blame the dps who were giving it 100% like you wanted~

I'm trying to find the part in any of bokchoykn's posts where it says tanks or healers should be without blame.

If a tank can't hold threat, that's a very big problem. If they can't survive, that's a very big problem. If a healer can't keep people (who aren't screwing up) alive, that's a very big problem.

The difference is that those are all also very visible problems. The threat meter is right there. The tank's buffs are visible and everyone can see their HP. Everyone can see when a healer is or isn't casting, and can see HP bars drop and rise. You can tell when those two roles are performing at least well enough, even if you're not familiar with the jobs.

You can't tell with DPS without external tools. Unless you know the job(s) really well yourself and are watching them almost as much as your own stuff. I know MNK well enough to have a general idea of what buttons a MNK is pushing if I have time to pay attention. But I've honestly got no clue about the other DPS classes, and there's no way I've got time to keep an eye on all of them to see who's the weak link just from what's going on in the game. The threat meter kind of helps, but some classes have threat drops, and if they're split on different targets, it's not that useful. All you've really got is whether or not stuff is dying fast enough.

The nature of the game already holds tanks and healers accountable enough. Good players will always want to improve regardless of their role. But DPS just don't have nearly that level of visible accountability.

The stigma against accountability (for all roles) could use some weakening. It's just that that stigma already isn't nearly as strong when it comes to tanks or healers. You don't have to worry about being told how to improve in either of those roles; you screw up, you'll hear about it.

[skaterger]

I still don't see how dps are not accountable for fights when Titan heart phase, ifrit ex nails, T4, T5 are all hard dps checks. If a raid wipes to any of the above mechanics, the fingers will be solely pointed to the dps. Maybe its not as obvious as a tank losing aggro or a healer not healing, but the collective dps has failed as a whole. And isn't there a saying like "you are only as good as your weakest member" or something like that.

I can kinda see where you are going with parsers, but the fact is most of the player community has not progressed to a point where parsers are necessary imho. Do you really think you need a parser for wp, ak ct or any of the hm dungeons? If SE decides to include parsers as a feature in the game, its just going to grief more players than it benefits. And serious raiders who are challenging end game content are going to get parsers one way or another, regardless of whether its allowed by SE or not.