Observations on DPS in End Game

[bokchoykn]

in MOST dungeons and endgame content, if a dps is doing 70-80% of their potential damage the enemies will still die. A tank doing 70-80% of their potential in tanking will likely end up eating dirt and wiping the party.

Again, dealing excess amounts DPS reduces your margin of error. 70-80% of damage potential is enough to kill anything in the game. Especially since most of us are overgeared for the content we're clearing. That's if everything else is going perfectly, which isn't always the case. Why do you think EX Titan groups fold when one person dies? Why do you think i90 parties can't beat Twintania without 5 DPS?

Anyway, how do you define "70-80% of potential in tanking?" 70-80% of threat generation? 70-80% of HP pool? 70-80% of damage output? Anyway, I don't understand what you mean by that, but whatever you meant by that, I can't see how it can be both relevant and correct.

As for parsers, first off they are illegal in this game~ second Ps3 players can't use them, so that line of "improvement" is out~

I agree on both counts. They are illegal. PS3 players can't use them. For those who can use them, they're pretty damn useful. For those who can't, sorry.

Telling people "L2PB!" because they aren't able to do 100% of what you think they're capable of is stupid~ any number of reasons could be holding them back. A disability that reduces their motorskills, a laggy connection so they're getting frequent hangtime on their commands or it's a new dungeon or method to them. All of these are legitimate reasons for not "pulling your weight" and besides, They've paid just as much to play this game as you all have~ Should they be excluded from endgame because they aren't "the elite of elites"?

Is it really stupid? A person with a disability, laggy connection, or lack of experience is NOT entitled to victory by virtue of his handicap. THAT is stupid. While these may be legitimate reasons to you for someone not pulling their weight, Titan EX does not give a flying fuck about your disability, laggy connection, or lack of experience. Landslides will still knock you off the platform. You still need to X damage in 10 minutes to kill him. You still have to heal the damage he puts out. The conditions of victory and defeat are set by the designers of and the boss fight. You either pass or fail. It's black and white. That's the way it should be.

Paying the same amount as someone else for a video game does not entitle you to the same level of progression as they have. That's preposterous. I can't believe you even brought that up.

[bokchoykn]

So if a Paladin doesn't use flash as a part of their aggro rotation, they will eat dirt and wipe the party. Gotcha.

[Rein-Yagami]

So if a Paladin doesn't use flash as a part of their aggro rotation, they will eat dirt and wipe the party. Gotcha.

Oh but if a drg doesn't use heavy thrust, or a blm use thundercloud procs that'll wipe the party?

I've seen tanks in endgame content that are constantly on the verge of losing aggro during bosses~ but we can't blame the tank if aggro is lost and that causes a wipe right? Poor tanks~ We'll blame the dps who were giving it 100% like you wanted~

[Bixby]

Oh but if a drg doesn't use heavy thrust, or a blm use thundercloud procs that'll wipe the party?

I've seen tanks in endgame content that are constantly on the verge of losing aggro during bosses~ but we can't blame the tank if aggro is lost and that causes a wipe right? Poor tanks~ We'll blame the dps who were giving it 100% like you wanted~

I'm trying to find the part in any of bokchoykn's posts where it says tanks or healers should be without blame.

If a tank can't hold threat, that's a very big problem. If they can't survive, that's a very big problem. If a healer can't keep people (who aren't screwing up) alive, that's a very big problem.

The difference is that those are all also very visible problems. The threat meter is right there. The tank's buffs are visible and everyone can see their HP. Everyone can see when a healer is or isn't casting, and can see HP bars drop and rise. You can tell when those two roles are performing at least well enough, even if you're not familiar with the jobs.

You can't tell with DPS without external tools. Unless you know the job(s) really well yourself and are watching them almost as much as your own stuff. I know MNK well enough to have a general idea of what buttons a MNK is pushing if I have time to pay attention. But I've honestly got no clue about the other DPS classes, and there's no way I've got time to keep an eye on all of them to see who's the weak link just from what's going on in the game. The threat meter kind of helps, but some classes have threat drops, and if they're split on different targets, it's not that useful. All you've really got is whether or not stuff is dying fast enough.

The nature of the game already holds tanks and healers accountable enough. Good players will always want to improve regardless of their role. But DPS just don't have nearly that level of visible accountability.

The stigma against accountability (for all roles) could use some weakening. It's just that that stigma already isn't nearly as strong when it comes to tanks or healers. You don't have to worry about being told how to improve in either of those roles; you screw up, you'll hear about it.

[Itseotle]

- Actually DRGs in general, they're almost all terrible

This is a sterotype that has lived long enough. Anyone can be bad. I see more bad BRDs than DRGs lately, but its all just opinion.

Oh but if a drg doesn't use heavy thrust, or a blm use thundercloud procs that'll wipe the party?

Yup. Won't kill those Conflags/Snakes/Dreadknights/Dreadnaughts/Knights/Gaols/Suparnas/Chiradas/Satins/Nails/ect fast enough without HT, resulting in wipe.

I really like the OPs post. It comes across as just a general nudge to do better, and he does have a point. But to the OP, that is the line, I believe, between casual and "not casual". A lot of people who have cleared the top tiers of content do perform the way you have described. This is a game that welcomes people who do only play at 70% efficiency, but those people cannot get themselves through the content, which imo is the dividing line. Just let people play the way they want to play. For those that do want to improve, this is a useful point of reading.

keep in mind that melees DPS get shafted by AoE circles and that Grease Lightning most of the time will be lost if a boss jumps and comes bak down. It can be preserve but u will be pushing the time on your grease lightning. and to get it back you have to slowly build it back. While its good if a MNK can work with that but im pretty sure alot cant.

This should not be used as a crutch. This sounds like your talking about Primals, and those fights are designed in a way that Monks (and any job) can clear them. If you are performing your job to the best of your ability, then it doesn't matter if you lose Greased Lightning. It is designed for you to do so, and that my friend is just part of what it means to truly optimize your DPS in those fights.

I still don't see how dps are not accountable for fights when Titan heart phase, ifrit ex nails, T4, T5 are all hard dps checks. If a raid wipes to any of the above mechanics, the fingers will be solely pointed to the dps. Maybe its not as obvious as a tank losing aggro or a healer not healing, but the collective dps has failed as a whole. And isn't there a saying like "you are only as good as your weakest member" or something like that.

This is entirely true, especially as more people start moving into Extreme mode primals (heck people still struggle with HM Titan). It is very easy to tell if the DPS are failing when you don't break Titan's Heart and everyones alive? That's the DPS to blame, and your right it might not be just one person which is why I feel the OP needs to add the following concept to his original post:

- Another responsibility of DPS is to coordinate with each other. This includes simple ideas like "who is using Limit Break and and what time?" to more complex ideas like cross-buffing for DPS increases. For example, as a BRD, should I be using Foe Requiem so the BLM can AoE harder, or Army's Paeon so the Warrior and Dragoon can AoE longer? Another relationship is Dragoon and Bard. As a DRG, is it more important to Disembowl the Bard's target, or focus on my own target? These concepts are more class-oriented but the general idea that you should coordinate with your fellow DPS is also very key to maximizing your class's potential, as well as your group's.