GLD/MRD DPS Roles

[PlayerEx]

This should be simple enough, current GLDs and MRDs can compete with DPS of low levels. Adding a DPS based job at level 30 would be nice as well allowing these classes to not be forced into tanking as it is rather overwhelming to newer players.

GLD job could use a second sword in off hand to allow for more damage and change Emnity generating attacks to get higher damage or even reduce emnity.

MRD job could use rage for extra damage rather than HP and Eminity bonuses. Again Emnity generating attacks would have to shift with new job to increased damage or the like.

Adding these jobs would increase flexibility of MRDs and GLDs and allow tanks to get a feel for new dungeons before running them without having to level another class.

[Odett]

GLD's are certainly not on par with other DPS classes in terms of damage. They generate more enmmity due to the nature of their moves, but their damage is extremely weak. If you want to test this, solo a FATE boss lvs 10-15 and see how slow their HP goes down. MRD's are closer, but still no cigar.

There is a strong speculation that the yet-to-be-added Dark Knight Job will be the DPS counterpart of the Paladin (much like SMN is to SCH), but if this does get implemented, I don't think GLD's should have an option to DPS until level 30. Why? Yes, tanking can seem overwhelming at first (I'd say that 90% of it comes from intimidation), but new players must start somewhere (continued in next post).

[Odett]

The GLD class should exclusively be a tanking class so it gives new players a chance to get their feet wet with the early Guildleves and Dungeons, so they can start learning with easy content, which are there for practice. If a job like Dark Knight gets implemented, then GLD's should only have the option to go DPS if they wish ONCE they reach lv 30. If GLD's have a choice earlier than that, then we run the risk of a GLD player DPSing and deciding for whatever reason at lv 30 that they would like to go PLD and tank instead. What would happen as a result of this? Having lv 30 dungeons be a PLD's first tanking experience. Would you like to queue up for Brayflox and see someone say "never tanked before"?

While it is true that this can happen if a GLD hypothetically sticks to FATEs and decides to start tanking at 30, the odds of it happening now are much lower.

[lyndwyrm]

Would you like to queue up for Brayflox and see someone say "never tanked before"?

I have seen this for healing, for people that go ACN->SCH and leave SMN behind, but they also have a pet that they should be used to summoning doing a large portion of their work. I can understand a sentiment that tanking is a little different, but it isn't that hard to pick up.

A little more on topic, I know many people want (and I think rightfully expect) dps jobs based off of MRD and/or GLA, but dpsing before lv30 as MRD and GLA would be a little difficult. Without implementing a special system for them, they would too easily be able to steal enmity off of the main tank and would offer weaker dps. I'm sure it wouldn't be impossible, but it would mean implementing a new system for these two classes in particular, which may be a significant amount of work.

Given the ease of the first two guildhests and that you have been to the three city states, and could then choose a different class, before the first dungeon, I don't think the effort would be worth it. If someone finds tanking overwhelming, they should probably think about choosing a different class.

I know there has been talk of allowing ACN to heal up to lv30 dungeons, but that is because they would be able to do so without any changes. They would not be the superior healer because they lack esuna, medica, and some amount of Mind, but generally speaking they could get the job done and have their carbuncle out dpsing.

Also worth mentioning the character limit can be exceeded by editing posts.

[Odett]

Oh, thanks! I didn't know that about character limit! It's true that people can switch to SCH at any level and start healing, but healing by itself in 4 person content is not hard in any way. A healer becomes more skilled when they can DPS (provided the tank knows how to mitigate) and heal when needed. I'm leveling a lv 36 PLD, and I think I'm starting to twitch whenever a monster hits me once and I get a Cure to be topped off again.

Tanking also requires things like marking monsters, cycling through defensive cooldowns, and positioning monsters so that their forward or back AoE's do not target your party members. I'm not saying this is hard or that tanking is always the hardest role, but it can arguably be the one with the biggest difficulty curve.

Tanks are also the least-played roles, so giving Tanking classes an option to be DPS right from the start would make things a bit worse. If a DPS job for GLDs and MRDs gets added in the future, you can argue about tank shortage, but letting these two classes strictly tank until lv 30 could greatly influence a player's decision to keep tanking (it's subjectively fun and short queues are nice). If you were to let these two classes DPS straight at level 1, some players could not even try tanking once out of intimidation, or have a shaky or negative first experience and not touch the role again because another one is readily available.

[PlayerEx]

I was leaning more toward having jobs that focus on DPS, not sure where I decided to mention pre level 30 DPS, not much point as dungeons at that level are not very difficult. The real advantage to adding a DPS based job for these two classes is that tanking a new dungeon is very difficult. Allowing a DPS job for them would give them a chance to try a new dungeon out without worrying about wiping the group as much. This only really becomes and issue later anyway so the lower level dungeons would not necessarily need tanks to get a good feel for dungeon.

[Odett]

You cannot learn to tank a dungeon unless you tank it firsthand. Even if it is your first time, you learn as you go and ask other players about the mechanics of a boss. If you're a new DPS to a dungeon, you're doing exactly the same thing.

Saying that tanking a new dungeon is very difficult is also highly subjective. If you're doing pre 50 dungeons and "just hit endgame" dungeons like AK and WP, there is absolutely nothing wrong with going in blind. If other players tell you otherwise, ignore them.

Once you do stuff past Ifrit HM, then yes, it is a courtesy and respectful of other people's times to watch a short 8-10 minute guide in order to be informed about the fight, but for anything before that, don't sweat it. Dungeon bosses have very few mechanics and if someone cannot take a minute of their day to explain it to you, then it is not your fault.

[Ceodore]

I'd say for Gladiators, we stick to the whole sword idea, but do an opposite class of Paladin, bringing back Dark Knights and the addition of Greatswords. For Marauders, I'd like to see the return of the Berserker and maybe the addition of single handed axes for dual wielding by the job. Also, introduce more variability among weapons within reason. Classes like Thaumaturge and Conjurer have staves and wands available to them. Arcanists also already have two jobs available to them at 30, so continue with the trend, obviously within reason.