Crafting SP Variance

[Karbine]

Agreed. Simply put what are the bonus SP factors based on/can we figure them out?

[Loony_BoB]

I like to think of it as a reality check. When you hand-craft, for example, a rough diamond into a diamond suitable for a ring... no two rough diamonds are exactly alike, really. If they are, it's an incredibly unique occurance. Likewise, when you cut a diamond using only your hands, you don't cut it exactly the same every time. So basically, you always have variations in crafting - be that the amount you learn from what you do, the quality of the final item, etc. These things will vary because, despite it being a video game where the end result is an exact copy, it should still be given some sense of reality in that for us crafters, it's an authentic handcrafted piece of kit that is one of a kind. Just in our heads, but you know how it goes.

[tymora]

While the individual SP from each item varies a lot, if you take the average you'll find that it is about half of the base physical exp given (After all the patches...).

So if you consider AVG SP gained, it is effectively static. As for the actual SP given, you can think of it as following a normal distribution about the AVG SP, i.e. it is random.

E.g. Same rank recipe gives 500 exp. AVG SP will be 250, and is independent of quality gained and durability.

Don't believe me? Just take down the SP gained for a single grind session and you'll see it.
If you want, take down the physical EXP gained too as a cross reference.

[Reika]

I brought this issue up in a thread long ago... I'd like to see it become static too, unless they make the bonuses known and have some kind of method to the bonuses. As of right now its all just RNG, and RNG is getting real old in this game.

And, it is not dependent on quality or remaining durability after completion. It's stupid to me. I would much rather see one static number for sp gains in crafting items than a bunch of random numbers, the same DoM and DoW get when they kill monsters. I dont see why crafting and gathering have to be different in that regard. We are a rank, the recipe is a rank.

If they were to show a static SP/exp, then a separate bonus SP/exp, then it would be much better. Right now its just RNG and this game uses it way too much.

[ScoutX]

First xp is based totally on quality. It's always difficulty + quality gained (end quality - starting quality).
SP is not only RNG. It's based indeed by your crafting.
Example: Finish an item with a blow is reducing the sp gained by estimated 100. Is the blow 1 step before, it could bring you 100 more sp.
I havn't done a total calculation, but it's more or less like this.
Some abbreviations:
SSO = successful synth without loosing quality
SSW = successful synth with loosing quality
FSO = Failed synth without elemental blow, (lost more quality than making progress)
FSB = Failed synth with elemental blow ( no progress gained, lots of quality lost)
WO= white orb
YO = yellow orb
RO = red Orb
+U = Orb is unstable, element out of control.
+S = with sparks

There is a base SP value by rank difficulty + (all your synthing progress in total/number of steps)
If you can finish the item, the formula above will be multiplicated by 2,5.
If you fail your job, the multiplicator is 1.

The synthing progress:
WO and SSO = gives onetime SP (quality+progress gained at this step - durability lost)
YO and SSO = gives 1,5 times SP (quality+progress gained at this step - durability lost)
RO and SSO = gives 2,0 times SP (quality+progress gained at this step - durability lost)
For +U the multiplier is 0,5 more.
For + S i have no idea.
For SSW, the same calculation is correct: quality has a negative value.

FSO and FSB: Not totally sure . I think the calculation is the same. As i said i have only calculated some synths and havnt parsed 1000.
Touch Up: Isn't calculated. SP is set after reaching 100%
Hasty hands: Half SP (probabably calculated at using normal synth untill finishing item)

There could be an RNG difficulty impact (multiplier) on SP. Sometimes when all others around you fail, you get more SP, implicating high or difficult RNG at this time.
But after investigating my synthing progress, the formula seems to be correct.
Because of the RNG, you got more unstable or red orbs, indicating you get a higher multiplier.

[Reika]

That is a lot of random things that we have no control over you have listed there... meaning it still randomly gained SP, even if all that were true, which it probably isn't.

Until they visualize the bonus gains in sp, it all can be considered randomization. Im sure yoshida and crew don't even really know what tanaka and crew programmed into it, which is why they haven't really given ANY big explanation on it yet. Without that explanation we can waste time speculating what it could be all we want, even tho it is just random gains.

What they really need to do is make SP gains one set value based on the item rank if they cant eventually visualize or explain the reason for variance.

[jwang]

Y'all are smoking crack here. Obviously SP variance is based on moonphase, direction, and weather! I craft in Cloister of Water all the time as BSM on new moon facing north and always gets the best SP! Being naked also helps.

[Reika]

Y'all are smoking crack here. Obviously SP variance is based on moonphase, direction, and weather! I craft in Cloister of Water all the time as BSM on new moon facing north and always gets the best SP! Being naked also helps.

That is clearly the explanation we have all been looking for. TO THE WATER CLOISTERS!

[ScoutX]

First of all Yoshida and Crew are the same since 6 years. Only Yoshida got promoted and Tanaka, well. Yoshida is always writing, that it is so complicated to change things and if the hardcode would be lost, this game can be closed now.
But in my opinion SE didn't programmed many things for themselves. They hired people to write a RNG generator for example. For low budget game studios this is common and i think the crew is working just with an construction kit with modules integrated. We call it White Crystal engine nowadays. These modules are the main problem.
YoshiP is a simple manager. Do you know what this means? He hasn't programmed or constructed anything. Maybe he is even not able to. He is just planing and coordinating.
Back to the problem. I also think, that his crew is too small. Most members are probably gamedesigners. Making textures and writing event scripts with the construction kit. There is this one battledesigner, we have heard of lately. And i doubt, that he even hardcode anything.
As you probably see for yourself. The knowledge of the gameengine is limited to a few people, which can hardcode and improve things. There are definetely modules like every gameengine has, that needs to be rewritten from scratch.
Those few people are to 99% not FFXIV Team members. The white crystal engine is used in many games and therefor it must be a special team or a team that even doesn't exist anymore. If SE uses 3rd party programmers for modules, it is even worse.

Topic random SP: If you really think SP shouldn't be "random" and you want the exact formula: OK.
But in my opinion you want just plain SP, no difficulty, not anything else.
"That is a lot of random things that we have no control over you have listed there... meaning it still randomly gained SP, even if all that were true, which it probably isn't."
No offence, but don't you think, you are a bit limited? I gave you a formula, but it is not enough.
You want total control over something, that is called a minigame. It is intended to vary.
If i go a step ahead, i would say, you want to skip this minigame and just pressing a key and there it is, your synth, like FFXI was.
Sure we want to know the basics of crafting like the thread starter. We have never seen an explanation in FFXI and we will never seen an exlpanation in FFXIV. That's the way YoshiP is doing it. He is the lead manager of both games. We can speculate like i did above, that most likely only one person has a clue about the synthing formula. But in the end it doesn't matter.

In my opinion the variety is so small. See the thread starters numbers. At higher difficulty synths, the variety is more evident, because the base SP is higher and so far every multiplicator has a bigger impact. But even then, you have an average SP output, that sums up for all of us to the same SP.
See my formula: all your synthing progress in total/number of steps = mean value.
We are all able to predict the total SP gained after 100 synths. And if you don't fail miserably, you can buy your items in advance to reach just a specific rank. I have done this many times.

FFXIV is like Linux. Everyone is programming on something. They make stupid mistakes on their own. They are independent developers and don't know, what other have done. More errors are following because of the combination. At the end, they compile against a kernel, which only a few people know about exactly. Someone announced the mixed up garbage as a stable operating system, although it's not.
Guess, who this someone could be for FFXIV?

[tymora]

SP is independent of actions taken or conditions (color of orb) during the process.
All you need to do is Hasty Hand something twice and you'll get 2 different SP values.