New Job: Pugilist Tank

[Exstal]

Sigh I don't even think you are listening to what you are saying. If you give a tank 20% dodge + the ability to survive any hit without dodging, just think about it.

You keep talking like there is some magical solution to this but the burden of proof at this point is on you. You can't just fold your arms and say it will work but no one has thought of a way to do it yet.

PLD 20% DR
Berserker 20% evasion

Hit 1
PLD - 800 damage
BSK - 1000 damage

Hit 2
PLD - 800 damage
BSK - 1000 damage

Hit 3
PLD - 800 damage
BSK - 0 damage

Hit 4
PLD - 800 damage
BSK - 1000 damage

Hit 5
PLD - 800 damage
BSK - 1000 damage

Total damage taken
PLD 4000
BSK 4000

BSK could get lucky and get more chances to receive 0 damage. But could be unlucky and receive full damage whereas PLD would receive reduced. Then there's Warrior who would also receive full damage (unless parry).

[Versiroth]

You could always give the Pugilist tank a flat block rate to make up for those times times when the evasion fails. Is it really so far fetched that a martial artist would be blocking attacks? Give their tanking stance a set % for evasion and parry (and give them procs based on successful evades and parries) and then give them a flat block rate with affects all incoming damage. Or, you could give flat block rates based off greased lightning stacks. Which would add the mechanic of them trying to keep up Greased Lightning before big hits in case evade and parry fail them.

[Acala]

Only read a few pages but from the sounds of things people countering evasion tank is broken want a warrior but instead of +healing gets +dodge...

They wont even give us a dodge stat do you really think they are going to add a tank that relies on dodge? I mean don't get me wrong i would like a third tanking dynamic but its not going to happen until the devs come up with different end game mechanics than one huge hit ever so often with debuffs to force tank swaps. I mean the reason they do it is to force there 2/2/4 group dynamic but god its gets boring.

[Exstal]

Oh, I would also like to add Paladin NOR Warrior can survive an unmitigated Death Sentence. Ask your healer not to stone skin you, and you don't use any CDs. See if you survive.

[PlayerEx]

I can see the concerns raised here about evasion tanks either being to strong or too weak, however I am also able to see that a similar system is in use that could flatten any tank using similar numbers. Critical hits form bosses would cause the same problem as an evasion tank not evading three hits in a row. Running numbers purely on one side would allow this scenario to play out the same as the PGL taking three hits in a row.

The Fists of Earth ability is also important as it adds more damage mitigation to PGL already. This would allow them to survive the few big attacks they take.

In the end this is all about risk and reward, if you want to stick with damage reduction with no chance of failure or great success that is your choice, but there is no reason to downplay another job that has more chance to it. So long as on average they both come out with similar levels of HP and number of heals taken I do not see the issue.

[PlayerEx]

Another fair point to mention would be that PLD use blocking which is based on chance. While blocking will not nulify an attack it does stack with damage reduction from armor, and the armor functions even when the block doe snot occur. If a evasion based tank can go through a dungeon taking similar overall damage as a HP or armor based tank I do not see the issue. The only issue would be the opponents that can dish out huge hits and threaten to flatten the tank if he fails to evade, but with cross class skills and current PGL abilities stacked with new gear with slightly higher armor/VIT I can see the tank being fairly successful even in the case he fails to evade often. The healer may have to work a little harder during that fight, but on the other hand in the last fight the healer may have never healed at all, meaning that they can assist in damage or make sure DPS are healed.

[Jandor]

You could have the RNG be dynamically rigged for an evasion tank. Chance to evade going up whenever it is hit, chance lowering whenever it dodges.

[Kitru]

You could have the RNG be dynamically rigged for an evasion tank. Chance to evade going up whenever it is hit, chance lowering whenever it dodges.

City of Heroes did something akin to this with Super Reflexes (which was a pure evasion defense powerset), though, instead of increases to evasion whenever you got it, it provided you with a scaling quantity of DR with the intent of preventing you from dying as easily to high damage chain hits. Vacillation in evasion from one attack to the next simply increases spikiness, which is already what's problematic with evasion tanking. If you want to mollify the RNG, some form of reliable mitigation needs to be applied in a dynamic manner, but that's only really required if burst death due to RNG were a major factor (which it wouldn't be if the evasion tank had +hp).

[LukeyP666]

What's stopping SE from implementing a completely new, individual stat for a Pugilist Tank in the same way that equipping a Shield adds the two stats Block Rate and Block Strength? Just throwing it out there.

[PlayerEx]

What's stopping SE from implementing a completely new, individual stat for a Pugilist Tank in the same way that equipping a Shield adds the two stats Block Rate and Block Strength? Just throwing it out there.

Good point, designing such a job based on the current system alone would most likely end up with an unbalanced broken job. New stats would definitely open up some possibilities.