Another "they quit" thread

[Kosmos992k]

It went out the window with the implementation of duty finder and lockouts.

That's why we need to make more effort to foster the community.

hard to foster a community when you can't help anyone do the content. Sure you have the pre-coil stuff to help people with but at a point it becomes anti community with the endgame.

As I said before...

The cliques formed by the emphasis on ... a static group are utterly antisocial and toxic to the health of a Free Company and the community in general. ...The very heavy need to form static groups of 8 hurts Free Companies and Link Shells, they become fragmented. Turning to Duty Finder simply takes the people left out of the static groups and puts them with strangers, further distancing those players from their 'friends' in the statics. That too is pretty much a cancer to Free companies.

The persistently negative tone in this forum doesn't help much either, we need to work together to improve things, rather than simply pointing at the faults and grinding our teeth.

[ufufu]

The persistently negative tone in this forum doesn't help much either, we need to work together to improve things, rather than simply pointing at the faults and grinding our teeth.

What do you want or expect people to do? All I see is you complaining in the same way.

[Kosmos992k]

What do you want or expect people to do? All I see is you complaining in the same way.

I expect people to act like adults with civility and respect. I expect that of my free company members, and I see no reason I should not expect it from the community in general. It seems to me that improving on those two things alone would be very helpful to everyone.

[ufufu]

I expect people to act like adults with civility and respect. I expect that of my free company members, and I see no reason I should not expect it from the community in general. It seems to me that improving on those two things alone would be very helpful to everyone.

That's an oblique response. How about this: a problem you've identified is that new people don't have more experienced players to help them through content. Because of the weekly lockout on Coil, and because of the high learning curve in some parts of coil, expecting statics to split up and help sets of new people through is unrealistic. Why don't you encourage new people to form a party finder group to learn the fights, or point them to a guide, or suggest they watch one of the statics in your FC that streams?

[Kosmos992k]

That's an oblique response. How about this: a problem you've identified is that new people don't have more experienced players to help them through content. Because of the weekly lockout on Coil, and because of the high learning curve in some parts of coil, expecting statics to split up and help sets of new people through is unrealistic. Why don't you encourage new people to form a party finder group to learn the fights, or point them to a guide, or suggest they watch one of the statics in your FC that streams?

because a) we're a free company that is meant to mean we work together, not apart. b)not sure how it's unrealistic to rotate one slot in and out when a group can beat something regularly, c) why do we all have to watch someone else play the game before we try? Some people like to learn by doing, I do, and I hope that people in my company respect that with others as well.

I think the key thing here is that to me the concept of a Free company is about a community of friends working together to help each other, not a federation of 8 person cliques worried about little more than their own gear progression.

[ufufu]

because a) we're a free company that is meant to mean we work together, not apart.

Okay. But does that mean you need to control who and what does which raiding?

b)not sure how it's unrealistic to rotate one slot in and out when a group can beat something regularly,

Mostly referring to the fact that people are already unreceptive to your idea; telling them to rotate someone new in when a static is already a close-knit group is kind of insulting, in my opinion.

c) why do we all have to watch someone else play the game before we try? Some people like to learn by doing, I do, and I hope that people in my company respect that with others as well.

That was only one example, and not my first one. Hence the "encourage them to form a learning party finder group" idea. That's exactly what I did when I first started Coil and, wouldn't you know it, I've been clearing turn 5 for the past two months.

I think the key thing here is that to me the concept of a Free company is about a community of friends working together to help each other, not a federation of 8 person cliques worried about little more than their own gear progression.

I suppose we have different ideas of what an FC should be. Mine has 130+ active members, with 7 or 8 Coil statics running weekly, many of which have turn 5 on farm. (As an example, my static ran through turns 1-5 tonight in around an hour and a half.) I would see raiding as an optional activity that doesn't necessarily need to be governed by the FC leader; rather, while there should definitely be FC statics, there should be other activities organized that are open to all members. We recently did a full FC Crystal Tower run that was a lot of fun, we have a house, organize map parties, etc. Honestly, I'd even suggest helping organize a new static, or getting a few of the new people together and helping them put together their own PF group or something.

If you want to dictate who each group takes, then be my guest, but considering that your own members don't want that... I don't think it's a good idea.

[Xayoc]

Except for the fact that XI is still alive and kicking. Just wanted to point that out.

XI is still around but ever since Abbysea it is not the same game as TOAU and before. SE casualized it to the extent where it is barely the same game.

Not everyone measures progress in the same manner. I am often reminded of a line from "It's a wonderful life"...

"Remember, no man is a failure who has friends."

This is an MMORPG, what happened to the social and community aspect? Where is the working together? Why is everything a race to get the best gear, and then NOT help others because then they would have it too?

It isn't a race to get the best gear per say as much as a race to be the first to beat the content. What is awesome about progression endgame FCs is that they work as a group to beat content, comparing notes, streaming for each other, giving positive criticism to performance, etc. This and what you named is what makes MMOs fun for me and I would assume a good majority of the progression community. You make friends and help friends that can actually clear content.


To all:

2.1 was the casual content patch, as will be 2.3, let the progression community have fun with our content, you'll be able to wipe to the next round of Casual Tower soon enough.

[Kosmos992k]

2.1 was the casual content patch, as will be 2.3, let the progression community have fun with our content, you'll be able to wipe to the next round of Casual Tower soon enough.

A lot of people would say that the vertical progression in this game limits the end-game to the 'progression' crowd, and the 5% statistic that has been banded about recently, for completing various end-game events would tend to back that up.

[Xayoc]

A lot of people would say that the vertical progression in this game limits the end-game to the 'progression' crowd, and the 5% statistic that has been banded about recently, for completing various end-game events would tend to back that up.

The only games with 'horizontal' progression were pre~2007 eg Vanilla WoW, EQ1 and FFXI, etc and to a lesser extent 1.0. Those days are long gone. Look at Aion, Post-Cataclysm WoW, SWToR, LII, or any of the other myriad MMOs to come out in the last 6 years and with few exceptions they use vertical progression for raiding. The days of killing King Behemoth for 2 years straight with no Defending Ring is over and thankfully so.

I will Not White Knight Square Enix but.

FFXI was running for over 10 years with a player base between 400 - 500k of users, was proven FFXI was the FF game, made more earnings to square enix. Until the numbers in ARR drops less of 500k, i will start get worry.

Most the smart people who value their time. Play 1 Month, cap the content and quit the game for two months.

In the actual state of ARR, this game is a wonderfull game for to be your secondary mmrpg, for the casual.

After of read the interview where are involved Matsui, Yoshida and Saito. Yoshi-P have a project of work. "My priority are the casual players" is his philosophy.

I see very difficult Yoshida start create content for 12, 16, 20 players, i see imposible for now he release content more often, the 3 months update will be there "Long time".

Even a Small FC have over 12 - 16 players active. The "8" man raid force to the FC leave out some members.

I think a posible "Quick" Fix without waste lots of resources is.

Create versions of 16 players of Titan, Garuda, Ifrit, Leviathan, Ultima, Coil.
Create versions of 16 players of some Revamped Hard dungeons.

Obvious the 16 man version will be a lot harder than the 8 man ver, with ILV 95, 100 and 105.

16-man content like you are asking for would be amazing, but wont happen. SE just doesn't have the development resources to support it, not to mention entirely re-engineering the combat system and mechanics of those fights to support it.

[Kosmos992k]

The only games with 'horizontal' progression were pre~2007 eg Vanilla WoW, EQ1 and FFXI, etc and to a lesser extent 1.0. Those days are long gone. Look at Aion, Post-Cataclysm WoW, SWToR, LII, or any of the other myriad MMOs to come out in the last 6 years and with few exceptions they use vertical progression for raiding. The days of killing King Behemoth for 2 years straight with no Defending Ring is over and thankfully so.

I was not suggesting that anyone return to that. Just commenting that the vertical progression in this game and the way that it is implemented is profoundly anti-social for groups of more than 8.