Why do you save your LB?

[Sunarie]

Almost the entire first 2 pages is people advising to wait on using an LB in case a healer needs it. That is....quite a bit of people relying on it.

Or maybe you just never PUG......

Snipped the response and all.. but.. I would disagree that saving it just in case (which is what the majority of people in the thread are saying) is the same as relying on it. Relying on it would mean you are counting on having to use it (and it actually working) every fight in order to clear the fight at all. That's a big difference from saving it on the off chance that something goes tits up and needs to be saved (say some person got distracted and ran the wrong direction for eruptions, or started running early and managed to kill everyone else). Then again, that last sentence is true when I'm doing end game primals, or raids. I don't PUG, so my experience is probably going to be different than yours. We've had a lot of success using a healer LB to recover when we've actually had to do it. Then again, we don't exactly use it often (I can't remember the last time), and when we have a lot of people die it's not because they don't know mechanics.

Our FC actually takes the approach that we don't want to rely on a LB period. Way back when we first started running Titan HM, we refused to use a DPS LB to help with the heart. We didn't want to have to rely on that to get past that phase, we wanted people to improve instead, so that there wasn't a bunch of auto-attacking prior to the heart phase, or that if we pushed him too early we weren't screwed. So I'd say that relying on a LB, whichever kind, we actually try and avoid. LBs for us are just helpful things that can happen in battle for the most part, not something we actually need (the exception probably being Ultima HM).

I also haven't done Ifrit EX. My group isn't focusing on the Primals right now, and as a tank, I really have no need to pug them.

[Eagleheart]

I'll definitely keep that in mind. Thanks!

Please do not keep that in mind. That poster has not one clue what the blue hell they are talking about.

Just... don't listen to that person. Please.

[Themis]

Whenever is most appropriate, strategically. Anyone that just LBs to LB when it has a better time or place is quick to get ousted.

This is really why it exists. Of course, if you are geared enough to clear the content with little issues (perhaps you run with the same group) then you can use your LB more liberally. But for new encounters and new groups, saving the LB can help the group turn the battle around in your favour.

[Lafier]

If you have 3 dead members in Titan, your LB will do so little damage, you might as well not use it and eat a landslide/weight out of carelessness.

Attack LB is the combine raw stats of all members of the PT. with 3 dps dead, you LB is basically crappier then regular skills.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the LB based on the ilv of the weapons of everyone in the group? I thought I seen a post on Reddit about a group that tested the LB with full gear on, and then naked with only weapons, and with low level weapons. It has been awhile but I'm pretty sure LB really doesn't change if someone is dead does it?

[zaviermhigo]

Well if you are learning to just bust your LB at any time, you will have to UNLEARN that later on. If you are doing EX primals, of T4 of coil, and you wasted our lb just whenever it filled, I'd kick you. Had a person do that in my coil run the other day as a troll, I will just assume you are troll that actually knows the fight mechanics and chooses to annoy people, instead of thinking you just didn't learn to save your LB until the party said so. There are strategic reason to use LB at certain times, push a mob into certain phases, etc. So if its some trash content, and you are doing well on dps sure, LB whenever. But in ACTUAL endgame, past HM primals, please wait, usually you party will talk strategy and tell you when to LB, or who should LB. If you're on mnk and you LB, when it was meant to be a BLM those are two totally different LB, one could one shot a lesser mob, while the other could take a lot of dmg off of a lot of mobs, there is a reason why you wait. I just can't even believe this thread. There are a lot of fights you can get through without a lb, don't get me wrong, many a time had a melee/magic dps dead during titan heart phase, and you had to dps is down fast, have a healer in cleric w/e, but what I'm saying is don't get into the habit of just pressing LB when you have it, make sure you ask before, make sure its ok to just randomly press it. Or else you'll just see yourself kicked as people will think you are incapable of waiting. Its the habit that bothers me more than the reason behind it, if you get into this habit, you're going to be the one I'm yelling at in harder content where we did actually need the LB cause we're a lil under geared, think t6. After a while you don't need it, and do it without it, but its nice to have, and I don't want some guy being selfish thinking he should lb at the two mark cause its full >< new players shouldn't be taught this, its ok for old experienced ones to think it if that makes sense, we've usually done the fight a few times, can tell within first 5 minutes dps strength etc etc. New player doing this seems like....spoiled brat kid who is too selfish to think about anyone else.

TLDR: Its ok for low level trash content, but in real endgame EX primals and Coil, don't expect to do that, I would kick you for it, with good reason, there are reasons to talk about the LB, who should use it, and when. I really don't think anyone's good enough to not use a LB through t5 c'mon, lets not kid, so lets not get new players use to just LB all the time. IF you're with FC that's chill do w/e you've agreed on. But with random players (pugs), please don't do this, that's just bad practice for later. Now if you know "here is where someone should LB in this fight" and no one does, PLEASE DO, tank or healer shouldn't always have to call LB to you guys. Just old experienced players, that are clearing all content, its ok for you to think this. NEW PLAYERS: it is not ok for you to think this.

[kukurumei]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the LB based on the ilv of the weapons of everyone in the group? I thought I seen a post on Reddit about a group that tested the LB with full gear on, and then naked with only weapons, and with low level weapons. It has been awhile but I'm pretty sure LB really doesn't change if someone is dead does it?

Go test it, any melee will realize their LB is worthless crap with enough people dead.

[JayCommon]

snip

I guess it really just depends on your viewpoint. I totally agree with most of what you said. Every once in a while things can get crazy, with a static. I can count on one hand the amount of times I have ever needed to LB3 my static, and we have been playing together since launch. And it is truly rare for me, because I usually leave that up to the actual healers. I will ONLY LB3 if both healers are down. And my FC kind of unofficially takes the same stand as yours in regards to using it at all. The only thing we have ever designated a LB for, is in phase 6 of Turn 4. Any other time, it's like you said: It's nice to have, but not really needed.

Then we get into the PUG discussion which is entirely different. My FC has about 2-3 days a week where we all get to play together, due to work/life/family etc. I can play every day if I choose to, so I end up pugging content when my FC isn't on. I help people with trials with my LS, and try to teach mechanics to people who don't know them. But my experience in Trials with full PUG groups has never been good. In all my groups save for one, my LB3 has been used to resurrect a wiped group, that just wiped again.

Technically you're right about the difference between relying and saving 'just in case', but I would argue that if you go in with that mentality then it's already a fail. IMO, you should go into a new fight knowing that you will wipe, but trying to progressively get better at the mechanics. To me, it's like keeping a pair of crutches in your car's trunk when both of your legs work just fine. But, that's just my opinion.

[Lafier]

Go test it, any melee will realize their LB is worthless crap with enough people dead.

Until I can get more people that agree with you, I'm going to go off on the assumption that it doesn't. Mainly because this game has been out for months and this is the first I've ever heard of dead people affecting limit break damage. I never really get to play as melee myself, so if more people can confirm what you said I'd be more inclined to believe it.

Edit: I've had people tell me it still goes off the KO'd person's ilv and that dead people are irrelevant. As such I'm not sure how much water your cup holds with me (personally, everyone else is inclined to believe what they wish).

[Alkimi]

Go test it, any melee will realize their LB is worthless crap with enough people dead.

Melee LB is based off the average weapon damage of all the melee dps (DRGs and MNKs) in the party. Whether or not there's people dead is irrelevant, it will always do the same damage.

Caster LB is the same but average weapon magic damage of your caster classes in the party. This does not include healers.

Glad I could clear that up for you.

[Odett]

I'm seeing that there are misconceptions about LB strength. Does it say in the Combat text how much damage an LB did? If it does, I'll definitely perform a little experimental trial when some FC mates are on, once LBing with a full live party, and a second time with one or more dead members. I'll hopefully get back to you guys soon (or if someone does this sooner than me, I'd greatly appreciate if you shared your results ^^)!