Hardcore MMORPG's would be a massive failure if it was released in today's MMORPG era

[Akiza]

For everyone saying this game should be for hardcore players and have horizontal progression and the like need a reality check. A game like that will fail in this because it will take 3-4 months to accomplish anything and have RNG which stands for massively online time sink. In today's casual market where people can play games on there phone or go play another game altogether, players want to accomplish a lot in a small amount of time. In a hardcore MMO there may be a boss with a 1% drop rate of epic gear but since it's RNG the drop rate is .02% so now players have to defeat that one monster over 500 times to have a chance at a drop most players today will quit and move on leaving only the most hardcore player base and an very empty MMO.

[TheUltimate3]

To be completely fair, if FFXIV released in not a broken state the first time, took a while to reach end game, had horizontal progression and generally was not a broken mess at the start, it would have done just fine. Maybe not their current numbers, and certainly no WoW numbers, but they most likely would have been sustainable.

Having to rebuild the game from scratch however, that is what sealed the deal so to speak.

[Arkghyom]

For everyone saying this game should be for hardcore players and have horizontal progression and the like need a reality check. A game like that will fail in this because it will take 3-4 months to accomplish anything and have RNG which stands for massively online time sink. In today's casual market where people can play games on there phone or go play another game altogether, players want to accomplish a lot in a small amount of time. In a hardcore MMO there may be a boss with a 1% drop rate of epic gear but since it's RNG the drop rate is .02% so now players have to defeat that one monster over 500 times to have a chance at a drop most players today will quit and move on leaving only the most hardcore player base and an very empty MMO.

I don't mind the emptiness. Maybe that 'emptiness' would have nurtured/harvested a decent community, unlike the one we currently have.

[Gramul]

For everyone saying this game should be for hardcore players and have horizontal progression and the like need a reality check. A game like that will fail in this because it will take 3-4 months to accomplish anything and have RNG which stands for massively online time sink. In today's casual market where people can play games on there phone or go play another game altogether, players want to accomplish a lot in a small amount of time. In a hardcore MMO there may be a boss with a 1% drop rate of epic gear but since it's RNG the drop rate is .02% so now players have to defeat that one monster over 500 times to have a chance at a drop most players today will quit and move on leaving only the most hardcore player base and an very empty MMO.

So, you basically just said "It would take a long time to do things so most people would quit". What evidence do you have to back that up? How do you know that so called hardcore players are all but gone? We where all young teenagers once with more free time. It stands to reason that there's more out there willing to play in a world that demands engagement and commitment. Certainly not as much as the casual masses that will eat anything with the slightest hint of a skinner box design, but still strong, and more importantly, committed. I believe this game can support both kinds of content, and even stuff in the middle without having to rely on cheap tricks like lockout timers.

Also, Horizontal progression does not necessarily equate to timesinks. It's more about having more options in what to do.

[Haibel]

So, you basically just said "It would take a long time to do things so most people would quit". What evidence do you have to back that up? How do you know that so called hardcore players are all but gone? We where all young teenagers once with more free time. It stands to reason that there's more out there willing to play in a world that demands engagement and commitment. Certainly not as much as the casual masses that will eat anything with the slightest hint of a skinner box design, but still strong, and more importantly, committed. I believe this game can support both kinds of content, and even stuff in the middle without having to rely on cheap tricks like lockout timers.

Also, Horizontal progression does not necessarily equate to timesinks. It's more about having more options in what to do.

Too be fair, All games are pretty skinner boxes. Horizontal progression may not necessarily equate to time sinks, but they typically do.
I do however agree that there can be a balance between the two. I will say that after 8 years of being hardcore in to XI; after my departure
from that game, I have no desire to be that hardcore into a game ever again.

I play XIV everyday. If I'm not in the mood, I don't play and can be away from the game a few days with nothing to worry about. I avoid static groups for
this reason. I have gone in to coil once this whole time and beat turn one first try. Mainly because I'm ilvl 88 tank this content isn't that much of a challenge
as it should be if I did it when it came out. I'll probably play coil more when it does move to DF, not because I don't want the challenge that is turn 5 but
because I don't want to be tied down to a static group.

[Orophin]

So, you basically just said "It would take a long time to do things so most people would quit". What evidence do you have to back that up? How do you know that so called hardcore players are all but gone?

I think that game Pantheon that failed to get enough Kickstarter funds was a pretty good indicator. Sounds like they still plan to make the game regardless, but people tend to put their money where their mouth is.

Of course they may be other factors at work here such as who the driving force behind it is, (Brad McQuaid) but it still fell well short of its goal either way.

Basically, a game needs to be designed with this playstyle in mind and be able to sustain itself with a smaller player base. I just don't think you're going to attract hundreds of thousands of people with an old school style MMO anymore.

[Lyrinn]

Why not both?

[Lumiin]

will take 3-4 months to accomplish anything

Doesnt it take 3-4 months now because of lockouts?

[Mattia]

No evidence to back up your claims, and you act like there is only one generation that plays MMO's....

[TheUltimate3]

No evidence to back up your claims, and you act like there is only one generation that plays MMO's....

His claim is not as far-fetched actually. There have been a few MMOs that have been released that tried to hark back to the days of old which either failed miserably due to Developers running into issues (example: Vanguard) or never made it off the ground due to lack of interest (Pantheon).

That however is not the problem with FFXIV (as these forums put it) but rather FFXIV ARR being made in a fashion that had to get SE money to keep the company afloat at all.