How do people calling themselves casual feel about the difficulty level?

[Cherie]

I guess it's just that. I mean, i would never call myself hardcore. But it seems if maybe you've cleared all available content and leveled most if not all jobs, then people say you are hardcore. I don't agree, but ok, so that means I'm not allowed to say this game isn't that hard.

What about people that don't play this game as much (not even saying I play it much anymore)?

The reason I ask is, it just seems people that would call themselves a casual player (I.E. the majority) are also kind of bored. Sure, I know there are people that go: "Ermagerd, Titan hard mode is still sooo hard!" And truthfully, at one point, for many of us, it was kinda hard, until, we well, did it to death and realized it's the same pattern every time.

After reading the forums, people tend to say that since "hardcore" people are in the minority that it makes sense that "casual" people should be the ones mostly catered to. Ok, sure, they have a point, but it just seems that the "casual" majority are kind of bored too.

Sure there is content like the EX Primals. And, honestly, those were kind of hard for everyone for a little bit. They were fun to learn. But now, how many "casual" players have not completed them? I mean, yes there are some people that have not, but I would interject that they are a minority of the "casual" majority. Really the only difference in players is the amount of time they put in, in my opinion. So really, while a "hardcore" player might defeat something sooner (and it's not a race so I don't see why this matters to anyone), the "casual" player does in fact beat the same content, but just a bit later.

In the end, both groups ("casual" and "hardcore") run out of stuff to do in time. So I guess my point I was asking about was, shouldn't there be more difficult content to work on? It's not like "casual" players will never do it. I think the EX Primals proved that the majority can get content down eventually. I would even suggest that the "casual" majority liked having something difficult to work on... Sure, the "hardcore" minority maybe downed it in a week or two, but everyone else? They worked hard at it until they got it, making it all the more meaningful and satisfying to them.

What do you all think? Yes to more stuff like that? The reason I ask is it seems that people bemoan there being more of it. We really aren't looking for more nerfs to current content as a community I don't think. I'm quite confident to say that people requesting easier content and nerfs aren't a "casual" majority, but in this case are some minority that even "casual" players would think are even playing less than them.

[Mhaeric]

I think you're greatly over estimating the number of people who have cleared harder content like the extreme primals.

Just thought I'd point that out before the hardcore vs. casual flame war begins.

[Nuinn]

I consider myself to be a casual player that doesn't want easy wins. Think along the line of not taking myself too seriously, not losing sleep about grinding end game or raging if I don't 1-shot stuff. With that said, as a casual, my issue is most fights (since this seems to be what most refer to when talking casual VS hardcore) are boring. On top of being all instanced. It really numbs my brain when there's a set mob skill rotation - followed by my own skill rotation, with no variations or surprises in fights.

[Cherie]

I think you're greatly over estimating the number of people who have cleared harder content like the extreme primals.

I mean maybe you have a point there, I won't say you don't. If you were to walk around the main cities or mor dhona though, wouldn't you say that a majority are walking around with a primal ex weapon or maybe even a allagan weapon? It could be just my server Leviathan though. Maybe I just notice them. One thing I can say that I am *not* seeing as much are the Zenith weapons.

[Amberion]

Just imagine when plugins are allowed and someone makes a boss mod.

[Mogi]

As a casual i don't care how long it takes me to get something or how fast i can get to 50 i just play at my own pace but yea there are some boring parts to this game sure. it be nice to see more ppl talking and less standing around like a stone or yea a fight that feels like omg we just made it but idk that's just me

[Kuwagami]

As a "semi-casual" (I play fairly often, like 2 hours each night I don't study for exams, but I don't rush content and I'm still pretty slow on completion due to that), I could tell you that some of your points are badly wrong. For the record, I started at day 1 of 2.0, got carried for 1st relic for Titan in late November then gained 2 others through hard work. I started the coil in December and now down T1-4 with relatively no problem (problems come from the fact my static only have 6 members, but that's an other story). I haven't cleared Titan Ex yet, though I've been trying for 2 whole month now...

ok now the points :

The reason I ask is, it just seems people that would call themselves a casual player (I.E. the majority) are also kind of bored. Sure, I know there are people that go: "Ermagerd, Titan hard mode is still sooo hard!" And truthfully, at one point, for many of us, it was kinda hard, until, we well, did it to death and realized it's the same pattern every time.

Be assured people know fully that Titan is scripted. Sadly, that doesn't make the fight easier and the lag many people experience isn't here to help them. Also, you're underestimating the mass of people who haven't even one relic... but Steam added a lot of players so I guess that won't count.
Also, the "casual" majority isn't bored from a lack of content but from a lack of content they can possibly do. ie, as they can't beat Titan HM/Titan EX/T1/2/4, they run out of other things to do in between their attempts.

Sure there is content like the EX Primals. And, honestly, those were kind of hard for everyone for a little bit. They were fun to learn. But now, how many "casual" players have not completed them? I mean, yes there are some people that have not, but I would interject that they are a minority of the "casual" majority.

Ex primals are not fun to learn. Dps have it easy (especially ranged), tanks get raped at every step (garuda being the worse) but can manage through with training, and healer have constant rotation of "naugh to do, naugh to do, OSHITOSHITOSHIT, naugh to do..." except for Titan Ex due to the plumes mechanics.
That said, "how many casuals haven't beaten them yet" ? at least 90%. And yes I think clearly, not just because I can't beat titan. FC statics who had the time have beaten Titan Ex. Not casuals. Not even semi casuals like me. Hell, half of the "farm group", 90% of the "post heart learning" and 99% of DF groups can't get past heart. You won't tell me the majority of the player base have downed the Ex trinity. That's wrong, and it won't be true until every single job can survive through the plumes and then do not care at all eating them.

In the end, both groups ("casual" and "hardcore") run out of stuff to do in time. So I guess my point I was asking about was, shouldn't there be more difficult content to work on? It's not like "casual" players will never do it. I think the EX Primals proved that the majority can get content down eventually. I would even suggest that the "casual" majority liked having something difficult to work on... Sure, the "hardcore" minority maybe downed it in a week or two, but everyone else? They worked hard at it until they got it, making it all the more meaningful and satisfying to them.

People do not work anymore on games. The grind-fest games era has ended many years ago. People do not want to be stuck for weeks on a normal content (raids are an other thing) such as 4 men dungeons. For the difficult part, there will be T6-9.
Also, as I said above, Primals Ex proved that the majority CAN'T down all content if said content is too much punitive (and titan Ex's plumes cast time is far too much punitive, being even shorter that HM's version). Be honest, the casual people won't down all the content of a patch before the nerf of said top-tier content due to a new tier coming.

What do you all think? Yes to more stuff like that? The reason I ask is it seems that people bemoan there being more of it. We really aren't looking for more nerfs to current content as a community I don't think. I'm quite confident to say that people requesting easier content and nerfs aren't a "casual" majority, but in this case are some minority that even "casual" players would think are even playing less than them.

We need :
=> more content, be it challenging (ie, not like Ex primals, more like PS. Cause PS is easily doable, people are just idiots who are afraid of a il49 dungeon) or not so quite challenging once done (like the HM dungeons). Of course the top end content will hold us long enough for the new tier to be released.
=> the effective nerf of needed content (even though in this case it's not a nerf of content but a buff applied on players). They will do it with T1-5. I do expect them to apply the same weekly improved echo buff on the current 3 Ex primals (or at least Titan, or at least improve plumes cast time) if they are needed to have acces to leviathan Ex.

[Kuwagami]

I mean maybe you have a point there, I won't say you don't. If you were to walk around the main cities or mor dhona though, wouldn't you say that a majority are walking around with a primal ex weapon or maybe even a allagan weapon? It could be just my server Leviathan though. Maybe I just notice them. One thing I can say that I am *not* seeing as much are the Zenith weapons.

That's because a part of the minority which had zenith weapons now have primal weapons (wich are for the majority better than relics, let's be honest). Also, no wonder people downing T5 (their number is slowly growning, I think I read something about 5% of playerbase) have their allagan weapons you know? ^^

[kasuke06]

Not quite casual, not quite hardcore, but I'd say the challenge is okay. Couple of annoying no-win situations(undergeared group on demon wall? better have a mage LB or you all die horribly. used at the wrong time/by the wrong person? You're doomed and you no longer have a way to build up a second one to use. group quit.) but otherwise, it's pretty good. never quite feels like you completely trounced whatever you were dealing with, but at the same time it rarely feels like you never stood a chance.

[Aife]

I consider myself to be a very casual player. Probably even more extreme than a "casual" player I guess. I work very long hours during the week and if/when I have time on the weekends I try to log in and enjoy the game as much as I can.

Personally I have no issues with the "difficulty" per se. Where I struggle is trying to make effective use of the time I do have to play the game to accomplish necessary tasks to progress. It can be very time consuming to try to organize a group or DF a group for the higher level instances - but everyone is so focused on being "pro" that I never feel comfortable enough to join one of said groups for fear of getting my head ripped off for not knowing the runs like the back of my hand. (Therein lies the real difficulty, in my opinion.)

I've played since Beta for 1.0 - but today was actually the first time I've ever set foot into LotA. (For example.)

Be that as it may - I personally would love to see more "challenging" end-game content. What we have now is definitely sufficient for somebody with a casual play style like mine but realistically if I were able to dedicate a little more time to playing I would have likely been bored a long time ago. Since I don't necessarily find this game to be a gear race (since there is no open world PvP) - I can't see why what you are suggesting would hurt?