THM/BLM vs Shadow Priests (WoW)

[AspectOfWinter]

http://wowpedia.org/Cult_of_Forgotten_Shadow

The thing is, Black Mages aren't usually considered Priests per se in most FF games, but yet in this game there are many similarities I have found between them and the Forsaken Shadow Priest cult from World of Warcraft:
-Both are considered heretical depending on who you ask
-Both are implied to have chosen to turn away from the light and head into darkness, yet preach balance to avoid the risk of becoming evil
-Both seem to preach a self oriented ideal, that you can change the world by using your own willpower rather than by divine approval
-Both reportedly work as funeral directors within society
-Both are often considered "outcasts"
Etc.

It isn't exactly clear to what extent Thaumaturges (and by extension player character BLMs) "worship" Naldthal, but going by the storyline and the prophecy it seems like the guild is a religious cult much like Conjurers, in contrast with the Arcanists who are more "sciency" with their magic.

[Seirra_Lanzce]

Thaumaturges and Black Mage isnt' entirely the same.


They're both different.

THM are not considered outcast, only BLM is, due to its nature to be very near the "dark side"

[RolandDebreton]

I know in another thread a lot of hay was made that the Stillglade Fane and the Conjururs were innately "religious," and I'll reiterate that they could at best be argued to be Eastern style "spiritists," that honor the spirits of the land. The thaumaturges however are explicitly religious in their presentation of Nald'thal and the death/life duality in the religion of the Twelve.

From the storyline point of view however it is, like nearly everything Ul'dah touches, corrupt and prone to a pragmatic, materialistic expediency. In short, its a leverage tool. The brothers in charge of the guild are vapid fakers that finally show some spine only when forced to save someone close to them. Interestingly, the only one who shows outright religious sentiment is Ququruka. At first he spouts phases like, "Heretic," as a leverage tool to frighten and bestir obstacles. It is not until a moment of redemption that he shows true faith or devotion.

From the standpoint of our own world a lot of magic has historically been connected to religious underpinnings. Only a couple of major religions have forbade magical practices. Many actually have spells and incantations as part of the worship (thus the other religions forbidding such).

[Enkidoh]

Although they might appear to be dark priests at a glance, the THMs Guild actually is something far more mundane (but no less darker) than that - they're actually funeral directors, who developed their school of magic from the manipulation of aether they used in the preparation of the deceased for burial (even their Guildhall's name hints at this - an 'ossaury' is a container used for storing bones from multiple bodies). When you first join up as a THM, the Guild receptionist at the front desk clearly states their early history as such.

Of course this could easily be taken as being 'in service to Thal', the 'god of the dead' aspect of Nald'thal (and very much in keeping with Ul'dah's own reputation as being a place where 'money talks'), but considering they seem to be more interested in taking money from the estates of the deceased than actually praying, it's little wonder they have a bad reputation.

[Naraku_Diabolos]

I still wanted to do the rest of the THM quests in 1.0. I remember the first one I did for THM in 1.0, it seemed interesting. It was at the time when Yoshida had brought upon the changes so THM had Blizzard, Thunder, and Fire, and I felt that the 1.0 quest seemed odd once the movesets had changed.

[AspectOfWinter]

One common theory in WoW is that while Light magics are used selflessly, Shadow magics are powered by (and feed upon) one's selfishness. Thus, most RPers feel it is more or less impossible to be a practitioner of both.

Of course, this isn't to say a Shadow Priest cannot do "good" acts, it's just that it's extremely difficult to wield the Shadow effectively when that good doesn't directly benefit you. There has to be some degree of selfishness involved.

One RPing guide for Priests in WoW says:
"If you are a Holy priest, you are loyal and selfless, always willing to risk your life for the good of others. However, if you are a shadow priest, then you are the exact opposite. Greedy, selfish, and ignorant. Will do anything to get power. Exploit it, use it for your own good, let others suffer if it will grant you power. Much like a warlock, you are not trusted, even hated by many."

Sounds a lot like Conjurers and Thaumaturges, huh?

[Skies]

Not quite, conjury is hardly selfless. In fact, conjurers are wont to let even a young child suffer a terrible fate if so is the wish of the elementals.
In fact, true selflessness to the point almost giving her own life to save the life of another was only attained by two conjurers in completely ignoring true conjury, using their own power rather than nature's power to fuel their spells much akin to how thaumaturgy works. (before they learned that nature can be kind too and not just cruel)

[AspectOfWinter]

In the final Conjurer quest, it's highly implied that if you don't believe your cause is just or you act selfishly, the healing spells of Conjury will fail you. On the other hand, White Magic WAS used for selfish purposes and that's how it brought about an Umbral era, so it seems pretty muddy...

As for a WoW Priest saving a village of children, the only way the Shadow would willingly aid her is if she had an ulterior motive for doing that for self gain and believes that fully. No thoughts of "I am only doing this to save the sons and daughters of my friends in the church." Becoming a Shadow Priest, at its core, is about not helping anyone but yourself.

For this reason, Shadow Priests have often been compared to Sith Lords from Star Wars.