Dark Knight - Great Sword or Great Scythe poll

[Rubieus]

I typed up a few paragraphs in response, re-read them then deleted them. My tone is becoming too snide/bitter, I think I'm gonna have to stop here before I post something I regret. Ah well, best of luck to the people who want scythes.

I don't want scythe. I don't even know why I am in this thread.. Where's the Gunblade thread? Point me in that direction please.

[Aegis]

I just googled "Scythe as a Weapon" and clicked the first link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_scythe

War scythes were a popular weapon of choice and opportunity of many peasant uprisings throughout history. To name just a few examples, ancient Greek historian, Xenophon, describes in his work (Anabasis) the chariots of Artaxerxes II, which had projecting scythes fitted. Polish peasants used war scythes during the 17th-century Swedish invasion (The Deluge). In the 1685 battle of Sedgemoor, James Scott, 1st Duke of Monmouth, fielded a 5000 strong peasant unit armed with war scythes. They were used in the 1784 Transylvanian peasants' Revolt of Horea, Cloşca and Crişan, in the war in the Vendée by royalist peasant troops, in the 1st War of Schleswig in 1848 in Denmark, and again in various Polish uprisings: Kościuszko Uprising in 1794, when in battle of Racławice scythemen successfully charged and captured Russian artillery. In that year Chrystian Piotr Aigner published a field manual Short Treatise on Pikes and Scythes, detailing the training and operation of scythe-equipped forces, the first and probably the only such book in the history of warfare. War scythes were later used in the November Uprising in 1831, January Uprising in 1863 and Silesian Uprising in 1921. The description of a fighting unit as "scythemen" was used in Poland as late as 1939, however the Gdynia "kosynierzy" were armed with hunting guns rather than with scythes.

So enough about scythes being impractical weapons, they have been used successfully, they are just like any other polearm with a curved blade. They are certainly more useful than a wand, a book or a budding twig.

Personally I think XI's take on the DRK was an improvement on the offline versions' takes on it, but that is personal opinion. Yoshi-P has mentioned publicly they were considering adding DRK to GLA, however which would indicate either Sword, Sword and Board, Dual Swords or Greatsword.

The great sword could be implemented in just the same way that THM/CNJ have two handed and one-handed variants of their weapons. In the same vein I could see LNC getting a tank job by the introduction of 1H spears and LNC-equippable shields.

[Doo]

Ranger Bow or Gun?



or




or maybe a Gunsword

http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs71/f/20...37-d38fjv6.jpg

[Pyreflye]

I just googled "Scythe as a Weapon" and clicked the first link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_scythe

War scythes were a popular weapon of choice and opportunity of many peasant uprisings throughout history. To name just a few examples, ancient Greek historian, Xenophon, describes in his work (Anabasis) the chariots of Artaxerxes II, which had projecting scythes fitted. Polish peasants used war scythes during the 17th-century Swedish invasion (The Deluge). In the 1685 battle of Sedgemoor, James Scott, 1st Duke of Monmouth, fielded a 5000 strong peasant unit armed with war scythes. They were used in the 1784 Transylvanian peasants' Revolt of Horea, Cloşca and Crişan, in the war in the Vendée by royalist peasant troops, in the 1st War of Schleswig in 1848 in Denmark, and again in various Polish uprisings: Kościuszko Uprising in 1794, when in battle of Racławice scythemen successfully charged and captured Russian artillery. In that year Chrystian Piotr Aigner published a field manual Short Treatise on Pikes and Scythes, detailing the training and operation of scythe-equipped forces, the first and probably the only such book in the history of warfare. War scythes were later used in the November Uprising in 1831, January Uprising in 1863 and Silesian Uprising in 1921. The description of a fighting unit as "scythemen" was used in Poland as late as 1939, however the Gdynia "kosynierzy" were armed with hunting guns rather than with scythes.

So enough about scythes being impractical weapons, they have been used successfully, they are just like any other polearm with a curved blade. They are certainly more useful than a wand, a book or a budding twig.

Personally I think XI's take on the DRK was an improvement on the offline versions' takes on it, but that is personal opinion. Yoshi-P has mentioned publicly they were considering adding DRK to GLA, however which would indicate either Sword, Sword and Board, Dual Swords or Greatsword.

The great sword could be implemented in just the same way that THM/CNJ have two handed and one-handed variants of their weapons. In the same vein I could see LNC getting a tank job by the introduction of 1H spears and LNC-equippable shields.

The scythes used in war, and the scythes that are being suggested for Dark Knights are two vastly different things.
This is a war scythe:


I believe we already have a class that uses something similar to that.

In regards to the actual topic, greatsword all the way.
I've never been a fan of scythes in MMO games, and I think they just look far too stupid for me to take seriously.





I'd take a 1h sword with no shield, a greatsword, or Cecil's spears from Dissidia any day.
(Forgive me if those spears were in FFIV, it's been years since I played it, and I can't remember anything)

[Dravion]

I'd take a 1h sword with no shield, a greatsword, or Cecil's spears from Dissidia any day.
(Forgive me if those spears were in FFIV, it's been years since I played it, and I can't remember anything)

The spears where only in Yoshitaka Amano's artwork, in the game Cecil only used dark swords / holy swords. He didn't actually wield the spears until Dissidia.

As far as the topic goes I'm all for going Great Sword. Scythe was added into FFXI and I feel it should stay there, I loved XI, but I'm just not that big on scythes.

[Lusavari]

I completely agree with Aegis, but I also think there's an issue with the definition of the Scythe that people are having. People tend to think very limited in that the Scythe must assume a 7 or r shape. It's essentially a weapon on a pole handle with a long curved blade. It doesn't need to be off to the side. If you look at the game Dark Souls, there are 3 scythes available (all in the Halbred weapon family). 2 of them look like traditional Scythes, but the 3rd, available in Sen's Fortress looks like the War Scythe. We also see the Liberator in XI taking this form.

Beyond that, any weapon that's going to be used in battle needs to be weighted. That's why you see the heavy pommels on some sword handles. This offsets the center of gravity closer to the grip area so the users has more control. Also, you're working less against gravity and torque, which coincidentally makes the weapon lighter. That's why lances have the large bells or balls at the opposite end of the point.

[Lusavari]

Also... Here's another really bad argument I see people making:

I don't like scythes, so I think they shouldn't be used in FFXIV.

Sorry, but other people want them. I can understand not wanting them for DRKs, but to want other people denied a weapon option they really like is a bit lame. Seeing as Scythes are typically associated with grim or dark characters, Scythes work best for the Dark Knight. The Great Sword can be made to fit other jobs, much like Rune Fencer or something else. Considering Great Sword have appeared in the promotional in-game renders for 1.0 it's almost assured they will eventually be added. The main problem is that in 1.0 the Job System wasn't originally planned. That's why we have the odd balance of things we have now. It was Yoshida trying to salvage what he could from the original battle system. However, this ended up forcing a more creative battle system in the end.

[Alistaire]

Then we don't need Dark Knight. The whole gimmick of Dark Knight is sacrificing HP for damaging attacks, and you don't want your tanks sacrificing their HP.

As the game stands right now, you might as well make Dark Knight a DPS branch for Marauder with an anti-emnity toggle buff. So my vote is Great Axe <_<

I'm gonna go with this just because drk got great axes in ffxi but didn't get enough use out of them other than it being their best weapon early levels, till guillotine anyway. I always wanted to see gaxe drk become viable again.

[Pyreflye]

I don't like scythes, so I think they shouldn't be used in FFXIV.

That same argument can be flipped on the majority of those in favour of scythes.

"I like scythes, therefore they should be in the game"

It's the exact same thing, basing gameplay additions on your personal opinions.
You like scythes, so you want them in the game.
Others don't like scythes, so they don't want them in the game.

Both are the same thing with a different coat of paint.

[Doo]

Both are the same thing with a different coat of paint.

It is except one side is trying to do this lol. I mean come on there's plenty of games that have scythes as weapons! lol I mean come on it's a Final Fantasy game, there's plenty of unrealistic looking weapons!

Realistic weapon use.. in a fantasy based game. Oh my, the contradictions run amok.