Archer - Auto Attack

[Lienn]

Even with the initial Ranger nerf in FFXI the main form of TP generation was always /ra not /nin melee. Axe/Dagger in XI had a B- rating and the only thing that came remotely close to the DPS was Ridill / KC spam for TP.

Ranged attacks always did more damage than melee AA in FFXI and to think that it would be different in this game is pretty ignorant. But yes time will tell. Less than 2 weeks in fact.

Lastly if you need to manage threat by going into AA mode then your tank is doing something wrong. You have Quelling Strike, Sough Speak and Chameleon for a reason.

I just marked a spot where you just overlooked the main point here. In FFXI it was indeed some major difference between melee and ranged attack...but that's part of 2 points that don't exist here (at least until now).

a) In FFXI the damage was directly connected to skill, which weakened melee weapons used by RNG if compared to ranged weapons and made the difference much more expressive.

b) Here you don't have (and by what Matsui said never will) the melee weapon. Since you only have the bow it will be the reference for both melee and ranged damage.

This said, i do agree that melee damage will be lower than ranged...it must be...but i do believe that the damage/accuracy difference will be restricted to the arrow you're using. If you're in melee range you use bow's attack and accuracy...and if you use ranged attack you will have bow+arrow attack and accuracy.

But i do am concerned about this too...so much i already tossed SE some suggestions regarding this matter, including the suggestion of a basic action that makes you automatically pull back outside melee range when you use it. This would make the "moving back" almost instantly, not affecting the player's DPS since you would be pulled back by your attacks' effect.

@Arya: Yep, you're correct in both replies. But its that thing...right now we're just guessing stuff based on what we saw...its like we doing a jigsaw...we only got a buch of missing pieces still so we're trying to understand the image based on the pieces we have. ^^

[Kaida]

I was hoping that we would club them with our bows

[Galoot]

I heard alot talk about striking with the bow which would be cool, but still you would have to be close range. Either way if any Archers haven't noticed, we hit alot harder than any other DD job already so I'm not worried about the lack of AA. Only thing that I'm really concerned about is to see what kind've recast times these abilities will have. If it's adjusted well enough to where it won't make a difference and Light shot is about a 3-5 second recast, then there is no difference. Since our melee AA would be lower DMG and our ranged attacks take a few seconds to activate, the recast/lack of stamina bar might be in our favor. I'll wait til it's out to pass judgement, because we are OP'd LOL...just praying multishot will kick in 2 arrows if the recast is long.

[Nexxus]

Auto-attack with an arbalest or a gun (with unlimited ammo), even a gunblade :Q__

[Nixius]

Ermmm just my two cents but when I read:

For instance, archers will strike with their bare fists

I just assumed that wasn't a 'real' attack, like on FFXI when you didn't have a weapon equipped you would hit with your fists (say RDM?) even though it did crap all damage.

I don't forsee there being a good reason to get close to the mob as ARC, seems more like a programming design issue. Something like:

"Ahh I'm not rewriting all of the cose just because Archer doesn't have a melee weapon... just let them hit with their fists and people will just not use it when they figure out it's not meant to work like that"

Of course, time will tell =)

[Esk]

lol I just though well that's a a bit pft.. really now isn't it.
I can see kind of why did it that way. (were being group'd wit casters is my guess)
But i would at least like an offhand weapon (similar to pug maybe) with a new melee moves to go with it if they are not going to give us a ranged auto attack.
And for them to keep an eye on the dps balance of us not really having one, as i would guess the calculations are actually based on us butt hugging the mobs and using it.

[Dacen]

Honest to God people. My following post is with all due respect...

I've been leveling up ARC and it's just fine. If you really are archer buffs, then think of the time it takes to really load an arrow and fire a shot in RL. =P

But I digress...

About time there's less whining and more thinking with your heads. You're all so selfish, put yourself in the developer point of view.

If you were a dev, and were implementing an auto attack for archer, would you even consider for a second the possibility that having a ranged auto attack with infinite arrows, lower dmg, etc. would take away from the class rather than give to it? You'd just engage, pop a bunch of infinite AA shots before you stack your buffs and blast a high damage TP skill...wouldn't that be boring? Oh and let's not even think about initiating TP skills in between all that ranged AA madness, don't you think that would skew the damage in your favour a little TOO much? Then other DDs would have to be re-balanced again.

Think of what other DDs would think if they were useless because you had a ranged AA stacking on TP as ARC. Meanwhile, neither CON nor THM had those ranged AAs. It would entice more drama.

Ok, so then your solution to this would be to give ARC, CON, THM all ranged AAs. So what do LNC, GLA, and PUG get? Nothing? Those throwing weapons perhaps? Oh but, why do you guys get ranged AAs and why would LNC, GLA and PUG have to BUY their ranged attacks?

My point in case, stop thinking about yourselves and think about the bigger picture, then maybe you wouldn't be so quick to jump on FFXIV's devs, and realize that these changes are necessary.

The lesser of 2 evils are being chosen to balance this game and make it the way it should be, what a lot of people are doing now are whining and choosing the would be greater of 2 evils, which is why you are not developing this game.

Instead, why not be positive and ADD to this game and to the community by giving helpful tips and advice to newer people coming into the game instead of dashing their hopes and bursting their bubbles? A lot more people would appreciate it, the FFXIV community would improve and you won't be flamed on these forums for just being a troll

Peace.

[Capita]

About time there's less whining and more thinking with your heads. You're all so selfish, put yourself in the developer point of view.

If you were a dev, and were implementing an auto attack for archer, would you even consider for a second the possibility that having a ranged auto attack with infinite arrows, lower dmg, etc. would take away from the class rather than give to it? You'd just engage, pop a bunch of infinite AA shots before you stack your buffs and blast a high damage TP skill...wouldn't that be boring? Oh and let's not even think about initiating TP skills in between all that ranged AA madness, don't you think that would skew the damage in your favour a little TOO much? Then other DDs would have to be re-balanced again.

I take it you've never played a game where Archers had ranged AA?

It adds some great versatility and strategy, knowing when the right time was to AA and when not to. Good Archers knew how to control their AA so they wouldn't break CC, or so they wouldn't use up a buff.

Infinite arrows isn't something I'd like. I like the idea of having to pay for damage, but having more versatile damage as a tradeoff. I don't see how a ranged AA would take away from the class at all.

So to answer your question: If I were a Dev, I'd add a ranged AA and modify abilities to work in conjunction with it instead of against it. And force melee if a mob gets close, which would then force skillful play from the player since they'd have to learn how to keep a mob within shooting range. I'd also make it so you can't shoot while moving, so you'd have to learn how to move efficiently if you're fighting a mobile fight to maximize your damage.

The way the Devs implemented AA in this game is just them being too lazy to implement something that's more exciting and rewarding if done properly.

No offense, but you should play other games before you make posts like these knocking ranged AA.

[Dacen]

I take it you've never played a game where Archers had ranged AA?

It adds some great versatility and strategy, knowing when the right time was to AA and when not to. Good Archers knew how to control their AA so they wouldn't break CC, or so they wouldn't use up a buff.

Infinite arrows isn't something I'd like. I like the idea of having to pay for damage, but having more versatile damage as a tradeoff. I don't see how a ranged AA would take away from the class at all.

So to answer your question: If I were a Dev, I'd add a ranged AA and modify abilities to work in conjunction with it instead of against it. And force melee if a mob gets close, which would then force skillful play from the player since they'd have to learn how to keep a mob within shooting range. I'd also make it so you can't shoot while moving, so you'd have to learn how to move efficiently if you're fighting a mobile fight to maximize your damage.

The way the Devs implemented AA in this game is just them being too lazy to implement something that's more exciting and rewarding if done properly.

No offense, but you should play other games before you make posts like these knocking ranged AA.

Indeed, I have played other games, and yes I understand that ranged AA can work...with those games. This isn't "other games" this is FFXIV. Just as the mechanics for this game vary to the other games, as does the behaviour and skill sets of classes.

You are telling me to play other games before bashing ranged AA, I was never bashing ranged AA. As a matter of fact, if there was any bashing, it's to the reaction of others on this forum. I was simply stating that ranged AA would not work in this game.

And yes, I have played other games with ranged AA. Perhaps you are a WoW player who decided to try this game? It's because I have played other games with ranged AA that it makes sense to me that perhaps it would not work in this game as it did not happen with FFXI either.

You are comparing apples to oranges mi'lady. Don't seek to turn approval for ranged AA based off of experiences from other games. Doing so would only mean you want to implement other MMOs into this one, and therefore, turn this into a melting pot of other MMOs as opposed to keeping it FFXIV.

However, having said that, I do like some of the constructive ideas that you stated, such as:

since they'd have to learn how to keep a mob within shooting range. I'd also make it so you can't shoot while moving, so you'd have to learn how to move efficiently if you're fighting a mobile fight to maximize your damage.

I prefer to see (and I'm sure everyone can attest) more posts like that as opposed to people just trolling and degrading the community. I'm sure SE appreciates these more too, because then, based on community feedback, perhaps we WILL see such changes. As such, these are what Original Posts should comprise of. Good stuff =)

[Capita]

Indeed, I have played other games, and yes I understand that ranged AA can work...with those games. This isn't "other games" this is FFXIV. Just as the mechanics for this game vary to the other games, as does the behaviour and skill sets of classes.

You are telling me to play other games before bashing ranged AA, I was never bashing ranged AA. As a matter of fact, if there was any bashing, it's to the reaction of others on this forum. I was simply stating that ranged AA would not work in this game.

I don't see why it wouldn't work for this game. This isn't a turn-based RPG, nor is it a fast-paced arcade-style RPG; both of which could afford gameplay without auto attack. This is a slow-paced game with absolutely no negative effects should ranged AA be added.

And yes, I have played other games with ranged AA. Perhaps you are a WoW player who decided to try this game? It's because I have played other games with ranged AA that it makes sense to me that perhaps it would not work in this game as it did not happen with FFXI either.

You are comparing apples to oranges mi'lady. Don't seek to turn approval for ranged AA based off of experiences from other games. Doing so would only mean you want to implement other MMOs into this one, and therefore, turn this into a melting pot of other MMOs as opposed to keeping it FFXIV.

I played FFXI when it was released and was probably one of the most hardcore players in that game. It didn't have ranged AA, but that doesn't mean it wasn't needed. There was a reason Rangers macro'd /ra. It was to simulate a ranged AA because they weren't provided one. I don't know any Ranger who enjoyed having to /ra to have an AA-like effect (though limited due to small quiver sizes). You can't say it wouldn't work in FFXI just because the game didn't have it, because the players sure felt the need for it.

The only reason why ranged AA won't work for this game is because it's implemented really badly. It should be a toggle bound to a hotkey instead of continuous due to the large amount of break-on-hit CC. But even then, it's easy enough to detarget a CC'd mob before an AA goes off.