Monk should be more rewarding

[Lemon8or]

Biggest difference in DRG is it requires less movement then a monk and that itself is the reason no one likes playing the monk.

Speak for yourself please. I absolutely love this facet of playing monk, even remaking my bar over and over again until I arrive at my current perfectly configured bar (for me). I have summoner and black mage and honestly, monk is still my favorite by far.

[Zdenka]

As mentioned before 2x MNK will do more damage than DRG+BRD, by a large margin actually because you have the higher skilled or more geared player use the normal FBB rotation replacing every DK with bootshine, and dropping Touch of Death. While the 2nd MNK reverts to the FBFB rotation which will sustain a minimal DPS loss if the rotation isn't messed up. The gain by doing this is larger than the gain that BRD gets from having a DRG, while both MNKs individually are doing more than the DRG as well.

[NoctisUmbra]

As mentioned before 2x MNK will do more damage than DRG+BRD, by a large margin actually because you have the higher skilled or more geared player use the normal FBB rotation replacing every DK with bootshine, and dropping Touch of Death. While the 2nd MNK reverts to the FBFB rotation which will sustain a minimal DPS loss if the rotation isn't messed up. The gain by doing this is larger than the gain that BRD gets from having a DRG, while both MNKs individually are doing more than the DRG as well.

First off, comparing DRG + BRD to MNK + MNK isn;t even sensible. That's obvious that the MNKx2 will amount to higher DPS between the 2. However, what isn't being considered here is general party make-up. BRD is quite indispensable as a DPS job to bring to any party due to it's capable set of utility skills as well as safe, consistent DPS. Furthermore, it buffs any caster in the party. So the whole discussion operates under the assumption that a BRD is in the party regardless, because this is true for most content. This is without even getting into the benefits of not stacking classes - such as building higher tier Limit Breaks faster.

Secondly - and this is more of a curious thing rather - the FBB rotation. I'm assuming this suggests using the flank once for Twin Snakes, but otherwise sticking to True Strike for 2 rotations before returning for Twin Snakes? I'm assuming the MNK doing this drops ToD in favor of better buff upkeep, but even then this amounts to 9 GCDs before the Twin Snakes buff is refreshed, which even with a 2 second GCD is 18s. The second MNK is losing the +10% damage buff from Twin Snakes consistently, discarding one of MNK's strongest skills to minimize this, and ultimately dancing about flank to rear a lot more than the MNK doing a standard BFBF rotation and maintaining Dragon Kick (which in a real scenario means a higher probability of err). I'd wager the two MNK's would ultimately perform within a standard deviation from one another. It stands to reason simply doing BFBF, continuing to use ToD, but replacing all DKs with Bootshines would be sufficient and more consistent in increasing the 2nd MNK's DPS. I'll let this one go here though I suppose as it belongs in the MNK thread instead of here.

Back to the main point though - DRG + BRD vs MNK + MNK is a nonsensical comparison that does not apply to actual optimal party scenarios for general endgame content. Such a thing is only expected in content that allows the stacking of melee jobs effectively (such as Titan).

[Kuroyasha]

Hm? having 2 mnks in a party still gives you room for a bard to be included. Your 1st paragraph is making it sound like that's impossible. I would say it's far from nonsensical. Drg benefits bard dps, and mnk benefits mnk dps, so Zdenka is using that to compare. I would say just one mnk drop DK and keep ToD on both but whatever. "General endgame content" allows for the stacking of a class or 2. General....as in all of it....not just the highest of the general(twintania, which isnt hurting people running say 2 pld(in terms of the slower lb bar), though war shines as mt there).

Nothing in this game is stopping a party from running 2 mnks to beat current general endgame content. not even a slightly slower limit break fill.

As for optimal party scenarios, ive already said my thoughts on that and read throughout the thread others' thoughts so that would just be ''beating a dead bush" if i repeat said thoughts again.

[NoctisUmbra]

Hm? having 2 mnks in a party still gives you room for a bard to be included. Your 1st paragraph is making it sound like that's impossible. I would say it's far from nonsensical..

In which case it is actually more optimal to use MNK + DRG + BRD + <insert dps here, probably caster> instead of MNK + MNK + BRD.

In fact if you use MNK + DRG + BRD + BLM/SMN, you've got DRG buffing BRD, BRD buffing BLM/SMN and thus the optimal trinity satisfied with a DPS slot remaining, so it's open for MNK to come in and buff itself.

[Zdenka]

FBFB doesn't do more DPS than FBB, you can do the math or think about it logically. Either way makes perfect sense why it does more DPS.

[NoctisUmbra]

FBFB doesn't do more DPS than FBB, you can do the math or think about it logically. Either way makes perfect sense why it does more DPS.

My main point is that even with theoretically perfect execution, it falls into a standard deviation of difference. Basically, it is a negligible increase. That to go with the fact that a FBB rotation is quite more error prone.

Again, if this is even worth discussing it belongs on the MNK thread, because the point that the MNKx2 vs DRG+BRD comparison is nonsensical still stands.

[Kuroyasha]

In which case it is actually more optimal to use MNK + DRG + BRD + <insert dps here, probably caster> instead of MNK + MNK + BRD.

In fact if you use MNK + DRG + BRD + BLM/SMN, you've got DRG buffing BRD, BRD buffing BLM/SMN and thus the optimal trinity satisfied with a DPS slot remaining, so it's open for MNK to come in and buff itself.

My point was that one party comp (the optimal one) doesnt make the 2mnk+brd+whatever nonsensical. a 2 mnk party comp is practical as in it can get the job done just fine in current content. Optimally of course you dont want to have any duplicates in there, but i was arguing against nonsensical.

[NoctisUmbra]

My point was that one party comp (the optimal one) doesnt make the 2mnk+brd+whatever nonsensical. a 2 mnk party comp is practical as in it can get the job done just fine in current content. Optimally of course you dont want to have any duplicates in there, but i was arguing against nonsensical.

I suggested comparing MNK + MNK to BRD + DRG is nonsensical. What you're saying has nothing to do with this. Can a party have MNK + MNK + BRD? Sure. It can also have DRG + BRD + BRD. Both BRDs get buffed by DRG.

[Zdenka]

That to go with the fact that a FBB rotation is quite more error prone.

Theres only 2 things that make things "error prone" in this game: 1 is movement(game XYZ detection is terrible and drops AA's if you don't strafe properly... heck it still does even if you do), and 2 is complexity(human error)

FBFB is nearly 3 times the movement of FBB and nearly 3 times the complexity, and still does about 3-5% less DPS than FBB.

I don't know why you are just making things up, but I assure you FBFB is much more error prone than FBB.

And this is a MNK thread, I don't understand! Doing a higher DPS rotation doesn't make MNKs more rewarding?