Really ... more iLv50 ish Dungeons

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

The fun for the guy just gearing up in ilvl 55 gear is already there in 2.0 and 2.1! SE shouldn't worry about releasing new dungeons specifically for people who haven't completed the current dungeons yet. I'm working on the assumption that a lot of people want more challenging content. . .

I meant to address this sooner, but internet problems + laziness. Anyways, you have a good point, and your assumption holds some weight, but to quote myself from a different topic,

"Every addition/patch to the game is not meant to be solely for endgame content. As I always say, a balance must be maintained between providing endgame content for those at that point, and something to help others who aren't there get there. Otherwise, all that new stuff just becomes something for non-high level players to look at and say "wow, a bunch of stuff I'll never get to do because I'm stuck at x" or "don't have the time/experience/gear to get to".

This is something I've seen first hand, and not just with this game. No one want to feel like a hamster in a wheel, despite the fact that MMOs by nature require a time dedication and repetition. But imagine back before 2.1 not even being able to get ANY tomes or at least an i70 accessory UNTIL you beat all 3 HM primals? How much of a gateway would that be for casual/hardcore players?

[L-D-Omlette]

This. Right. Here. (Minus the "not")

Which "not"?

You're implying that someone who started the game yesterday has to play six months before they are allowed to set foot in new dungeons. That's absurd. That would be analogous to buying a used game and not being allowed to buy any DLC until you've owned it for the amount of time that passed before anyone who bought it at launch did. Or better yet, watching Harry Potter and not being allowed to watch the sequels until years have passed in between.

Newer players should have to put in the same time to get to said content.

Why? Because you did? Better beat all content w/o watching any guides then, because someone before you did that, and it would only be fair right?

They are still going to have to put in some work. Is it as time intensive as you? Maybe not, but it's not like they beat Prae, and can immediately queue for these new ones.

[LordSaviour]

You're implying that someone who started the game yesterday has to play six months before they are allowed to set foot in new dungeons.

I'm not saying second for second, minute for minute, but if they put in the time to gear their characters appropriately to join a Duty, then by all means let them. If it takes them 2 Months or 6 months to reach Ilv89(my current iLv), I don't care. As long as they are ready to tackle the content.

But setting the bar so low that 'anyone' can join is just dumb.

[whiskeybravo]

They are still going to have to put in some work. Is it as time intensive as you? Maybe not, but it's not like they beat Prae, and can immediately queue for these new ones.

I do find myself a little jealous sometimes. A lot of our FC members are just getting to 50, whereas I used to tell them "Now the real grind begins" now it's like "At least you don't have to run AK until your eyes bleed for tomes" lol

[L-D-Omlette]

I do find myself a little jealous sometimes. A lot of our FC members are just getting to 50, whereas I used to tell them "Now the real grind begins" now it's like "At least you don't have to run AK until your eyes bleed for tomes" lol

This is what I think some of it boils down to.

I suspect people are upset that someone won't have to put in as much effort as they did. Or they don't want to be held back by people they feel like they are carrying.

To the first I say, you're gonna have to deal with it. My neighbor doesn't have to put in as much effort to get to work as I do, and I don't have to put in as much effort to clear the snow off my driveway. That's life. It sounds like you at least have a sense of humor about it, or understand the truth of that.

To the second, take the time to put together a group of like minded people. DF is there as a convenience to speed up grouping. The cost of that convenience is that you don't get to choose who you run with. You either spend time building the group, or spend time with the group. Rarely do you get the shortest period on both.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

I clearly used an extreme case to make a point. I'm well aware of the progression. I'm simply saying setting minimum requirements higher ONLY serves higher level players and no one else. As a developer, if you only cater to your hardcores/higher levels, you'll lose casuals (who might be able to become higher level/hardcore with the right motivation/incentive). If you cater only to casuals, you lose the hardcores who will stick with the game for a longer period of time. That creamy nougat center is the balance point where devs try to focus. Everyone gets something, but they don't get everything.

[Chronos]

Coil 6-9 is progression content. These new dungeons will most likely drop the new allagan tomes the same way AK drops myth. They are used to bridge the gap from old content to new content

[Decrith]

I don't see the problem with the low ilevel requirement, the ilevel is there to prevent people from getting inside too low, in a realistic setting, a group won't have that ilevel and would be 10 levels higher to "normally" run it. Rewards? Yoshi already stated the rewards will include the new allagan tomestone, there might be more to it.

Now for difficulty, I don't see the problem with it, it's not an end game raid, we have coil for that, these new dungeons are designed for ordinary players, it's also a means for new players to catch up with the people from launch, if it was made too difficult, new players will be turned off by it because they'd have to gear up for a dungeon to gear up for an even harder dungeon to gear up for end game raid, a great majority will not want that, I certainly don't. If difficulty is really an issue for you that you might steamroll it with your current gear, then why not find like-minded people who want hard content, and just do the dungeon with weaker gear?

Oh and if it's any indication. Pharos siruis' 1st boss, Turn 5, and a number of other dungeons, "punish" you for DPS-ing too hard, forcing a phase change in an untimely fashion, and from my experience, it makes the encounter harder than it normally would be. If the dungeon follows this style, you might be in for a surprise when you do the dungeons once they come out.

TL: DR
The dungeon isn't meant to be (incredibly) hard, they're designed for new players to catch-up with the rest of us without having to go through an insane amount of grind, thinning the gap between hardcore and casual players, while providing a bit of challenge.

[LordSaviour]

if it was made too difficult, new players will be turned off by it because they'd have to gear up for a dungeon to gear up for an even harder dungeon to gear up for end game raid, a great majority will not want that, I certainly don't..

With vertical progression, this is how the game currently works....

They give us Relic, oh wait there is Relic Zenith, but OH Wait, .. there is EM Weapons but OHHH WAIT there is Allagan Weapons, but OH WAIT, 2.2 is coming, there is Leviathan and Relic Zenith +1. The same can be said for Accessories, and Armor.

Are we playing the same game? Ever since level 1 you have the option to equip better gear at most every 5 levels.

- - -

For a lack of a better term, 'Hardcore' players are expecting more than 1 End Game style dungeon every other patch. Especially when casual slower style players get 2-3 dungeons every patch.

It is not like this game is hard to progress, the necessary gear to beat the hardest content is basically handed to you just by completing easy dungeons.

- - -

Correct me if I'm wrong but last I checked we have no ilevel 55 dungeons the highest it goes is to ilevel 48 and that's only with the 2.1 ones and Wanderer's place and Amdapor Keep have no requirement. As far as ilvl gear WP&AK drops i55 and the 2.1 drops i60 gear. So I'm pretty sure the new dungeons might drop i75 or i80 gear.

My whole point in this Thread is that with Darklight Gear readily available; Mytho, Coil (and I'm sure CT) locks being removed; it is not beyond belief that the avg FFXIV lv50 player could get their character to iLv 70+ in a weeks play time to enjoy higher level content and the new dungeons if the difficulty was increased. Which would only make sense for these Dungeons, so they could serve as an 'End Game' to casual players and also a challenge to 'Hardcore' (but not as difficult as Coil or EM content) since they are going to drop the new Tomestones.

[Miska]

Is anyone else disappointed that the new HM and Amdapor Dungeons are going to be super easy....?

Why not make them at least iLv70 Min Req. ??

It is super easy to get any / all your characters to at least this Requirement by now with DR Bonuses .. etc

I agree. I announced to my coil static that I won't be returning to FFXIV because, the dungeons are starting to become disappointing. More ilvl 55 dungeons... but wait! A new tomestone that from what I have read and understood is only coming from Amdapor Ruins. Maybe the HM's but I think for me that is wishful thinking.

But more ilvl 55 dungeons is just pointless. And for everyone saying that ilvl 90 is the 'minority' I think you are more wrong than you think. Unless you can say You are brand new, or just got to 50, there really isn't any reason at this point in the game that your average ilvl should not be near ilvl 75. Even if you run 2-3 dungeons a week, its NOT hard to even get near ilvl 70. And yet with those of us in i90 because we put the time and effort into coil, we either had a static or a FC, and yes statics work really well when you find the right one. I really want something that is ilvl 70 or even ilvl 80 so we can have something entertaining while we wait for everyone else to catch up.