Tips for grabbing BIG HATE fast.

[Kitru]

On single pulls, always start with Tomahawk or Shield Lob. If you do it at max range and run in, the GCD will be up when you get into melee and Tomahawk/Shield Lob generate about as much enmity as Inner Beast does (IB is not something you want to use for enmity purposes; it's worse than a t2 combo attack). For multitarget pulls, facepulling and immediately AoE spamming is sometimes the better option since facepulling starts the fight at closer proximity allowing you to cluster enemies more effectively (and lets you generate enmity on everything right away instead of having 2.5 seconds for HoTs to pull attention away from you), though pulling with Tomahawk and moving into AoE spamming is probably best when the group is spread out from the start.

Beyond the absolutely starting attack, the best starting attack string I've found for WARs is BB combo>SE combo>(Vengeance)HS>(Unchained)SS>(Berserk)BB>(Internal Release)BB combo>BB combo>any of your combos>Inner Beast. For the "any of your combos" portion, BB combo gives you the most enmity but you lose Maim and don't get any debuffs; SE allows you to lead into the post-pacification combo with Maim up and get the 11% extra damage/healing on IB; SP gives you Maim and the 10% damage reduction.

The enmity you generate from that initial attack string (especially if you use BB for the any) is obscene. In t5, after killing the adds, I've swapped targets to Twintania, used that combo, and oftentimes I'm directly competing with the MT's enmity (and sometimes overtaking them if I get lucky with BB crits) even though they've been wailing on her for 30-40 seconds. The only "risky" part is the first 2 combos since you're only opening with a single BB combo and an uppity PLD in Shield Oath, FoF, and RoH spam can pull off of you, but, in my experience, even when they're doing that, they only pull it off for half of a second and are immediately left in the dust by the uber buffed BBs.

For AoE opening rotations, I'll do one of two things. In some cases, I'll Infuriate before combat and immediately Steel Cyclone when stuff is clustered with facepull or Tomahawk followed up by Vengeance and 2-3 Overpowers before going into ST rotation (target swapping to get SE debuff on targets) and using Steel Cyclone when it's up. Other times I'll just start with Vengeance and Overpower 2-3 times, go into ST rotation (SE debuffing) til I get my first 5 stack of Wrath then I do SC>Infuriate>SC. The first is more frontloaded, but the second is more damage and enmity overall so the choice between the two really depends upon how bursty I expect the group to be. Vengeance is an important part of maximizing starting enmity for AoE pulls, in my opinion, because it reduces healing required (which means that you have an easier time keeping aggro off of healers who are the problematic ones for the first couple combos worth of AoE) and gives you an extra 50 pre-stance potency per GCD (or so) on everything (not to mention the comparative damage increase; Overpower is only 120/GCD to everything; Vengeance acts like a ~40% increase in damage when you're AoEing).

For PLDs, it's pretty simple. For ST, Shield Lob>(FoF)FB>(Spirits Within)SB>(CoS)>RoH and then you just RoH spam and use SW and CoS on CD. For AoE, Shield Lob>(CoS)Flash spam (since FoF doesn't buff Flash's enmity; FoF is a damage buff and Flash is based off attack power).

I'll mirror what everyone else has been saying about Provoke: you should never be pulling with it unless you explicitly *need* the extended range (like when you're pulling the succs away from their groups in AK). It doesn't generate enmity; it sets your enmity at a value based upon the current highest enmity. Starting a pull with it doesn't do anything but start combat, which you can do without burning a resource by facepulling or more effectively by just using Tomahawk/Shield Lob.

[Maelwys]

Just get into your enmity combo fast. You say it is important to grab initial hate quick, but in reality no one is, or should be putting out large spells the moment you pull.

Emphasis on "Should".

I have lost count of the number of times an allianced SCH thought it would be a good idea to use Succor or Whispering Dawn the very moment before my sword touches a CT boss...

Starting with Shield Lob from range (or even provoke from EXTREME range) is certainly a good idea if your aim is to generate as much enmity as physically possible as quickly as possible on a foe, as you'll often spend the bulk of another GCD closing to melee range... but for bosses I can usually get myself into a position where they won't actually aggro our party until I hit them with a melee attack- so the rest of the party will not have the opportunity to gain enmity until I queue up an uncomboed BB/RoH. There's also positioning to consider - whenever you lead with a ranged attack; the mob can run towards you whilst you're running towards them... by using a melee attack as the first hit, they should stay in their original position and you can just spin them around so that they are pointed away from the other party members. For this reason, I tend to default to Shield lob for "Pulling" a mob towards us, but RoH to actually aggro a mob that I intend to tank where it spawns.

[Kitru]

Starting with Shield Lob from range (or even provoke from EXTREME range) is certainly a good idea if your aim is to generate as much enmity as physically possible as quickly as possible on a foe, as you'll often spend the bulk of another GCD closing to melee range

Opening with Provoke does nothing for your enmity generation so its never a good idea unless you can't touch the mob in any other way. As to spending a GCD closing, you're only going to do that if you stand still while you're using Lob/Tom; if you're using Lob/Tom as you run up to your enemy, the GCD will come up right as you close to melee. If you do it right and run through the target, they won't even move from where they're standing because you get into melee as the Lob/Tom hits and gets their attention.

[Traek]

Emphasis on "Should".

I have lost count of the number of times an allianced SCH thought it would be a good idea to use Succor or Whispering Dawn the very moment before my sword touches a CT boss...

In CT there is more validity to opening with a shield lob or tomahawk simply for the reasons of things like Succor. Again it depends on your alliance. I don't find on bosses like KB with such huge hitbox (he moves along pretty fast as well), and low aggroe radius to be that much of a problem with these AoEs. Perhaps it is because I overgear and hit hard. I generally just facepull bosses with my second method and have no issue. My full i90 BLM friend precasts Thunder III to hit while I'm pulling all the time, and I never lose aggroe for a second with Unchained > Heavy Swing > Brutal Swing, unless his hit lands just before mine because of his mistiming. Again, as soon as Skull Sunder hits with that Berserk, its game over anyways.

For PLD I do something similar to Kitru. I usually FoF as I'm running into shield lob range. So FoF > Shield Lob > Spirit's Within > Fast Blade > CoS > Savage Blade > Halone. I find the stronger PLD off GCD abilities to lend themselves to Shield Lob better then Tomahawk + Brutal Swing, so that is my reasoning there.

To the OP: When Kitru talks about Warrior best enmity, keep in mind his combo string is geared towards competing with tanks in threat overall. If MT is established (you) then you are actually competing only with Heals/Trigger happy DD, and using Unchained + Berserk + IR should be within your first BB combo. As the game stands, DD/heals simply will not keep up with your enmity generated through normal tanking rotations.

[Kitru]

To the OP: When Kitru talks about Warrior best enmity, keep in mind his combo string is geared towards competing with tanks in threat overall.

No, it's geared towards creating the largest starting enmity cushion as possible with the fewest GCDs devoted exclusively towards enmity generation (which is what the BB combo is). Even when I'm solo tanking, I'll still use that opening rotation so that I can focus on SE>SP so that I can have full uptime on both debuffs instead of losing uptime by having to use BB (if it's a WAR cotank, I'll use BB>SE or BB>SP depending upon what debuff they're maintaining).

Most of the time, I use that combo on a boss and spend the rest of the fight just using SP>SE without ever seeing the DPS get more than a sliver. If they *do* manage to get anywhere near me, it'll be after a couple minutes, and I'll just bust out the attack string yet again.

[Maelwys]

Opening with Provoke does nothing for your enmity generation so its never a good idea unless you can't touch the mob in any other way. As to spending a GCD closing, you're only going to do that if you stand still while you're using Lob/Tom; if you're using Lob/Tom as you run up to your enemy, the GCD will come up right as you close to melee. If you do it right and run through the target, they won't even move from where they're standing because you get into melee as the Lob/Tom hits and gets their attention.

I agree that Provoke does not lock down hate in the slightest and I'd not recommend opening with it except for in VERY occasional instances (Succubus pulls in AK being the main one that springs to mind - and that's definitely a "Pull" maneuver rather than the opening to a tanking rotation).

We're crossing the line into "technicalities" again here, but obviously uncomboed BB and RoH are the single biggest enmity increases within one GCD that a tank can inflict without prior build up time. I prefer leading off with one of them if I'm not confident that I can hold initial solid aggro on a boss for the first 5 seconds (as much time as it takes to get off the first two GCDs of the Fast Blade > CoS > Savage Blade > SW > RoH opener).

Perhaps I'm jaded, but I've had one too many bad experiences with Shield lobbing something and then having it ping-pong between me and a ranged DPS or Healer before I can close to melee range. Leading off with RoH/BB eliminates that possibility entirely, regardless of whether it was the DPS/Healer's fault or whether yelling "Learn to Play" at them might produce beneficial effects...

(whenever I said "Shield Lob from range is certainly a good idea... ...as you'll often spend the bulk of another GCD closing to melee range"; I meant that whenever you start running towards a mob and use Shield Lob, you would be put into the GCD of ~2.5 seconds, and you would often spend the bulk of this next 2.5 seconds getting into melee range of the mob. In other words, if you intend to use a melee combo on a mob, nothing would be lost from an efficiency point of view by using shield lob whilst running in - you'd still be able to use the melee combo on the mob once you get into melee range. Sorry if that was unclear.)

[Remn]

the second boos in CT, you would need to use provoke on the flying lady, this mob spawn with built-in emity toward some 1 lol. you will have a hard time pull her without provoke.

[Traek]

No, it's geared towards creating the largest starting enmity cushion as possible with the fewest GCDs devoted exclusively towards enmity generation (which is what the BB combo is). Even when I'm solo tanking, I'll still use that opening rotation so that I can focus on SE>SP so that I can have full uptime on both debuffs instead of losing uptime by having to use BB (if it's a WAR cotank, I'll use BB>SE or BB>SP depending upon what debuff they're maintaining).

You are still considering max total enmity, instead of burst initial enmity. You can't argue that Unchained + Berserk is better off two full rotations in, for competing trigger happy Healer/DD enmity. Not to mention throwing up your max enmity rotation entails five full rotations of no SP debuff on boss if other Warrior's aren't on boss (the case of KB), or the alliance simply doesn't have any. Using CDs on pickup (I'm not talking derp blow all stand still before pull using of course), simply will give more breathing room for DDs to front load their damage, and get out max DPS without worry of ripping off the tank.

There simply is no way a DD is going to pull aggroe on you mid fight if you aren't AFK. The only dangerous enmity period is within the first few combos going out, and it is where CDs should be used. I think your max enmity chain is good for people to know/use, just not in the situation described, and not in what the OP is asking for.

[Maelwys]

the second boos in CT, you would need to use provoke on the flying lady, this mob spawn with built-in emity toward some 1 lol. you will have a hard time pull her without provoke.

Nemesis, the Succubus spawns in the Thanatos boss fight?

Yeah... you can usually pull hate on those after a few complete enmity combo rotations, but they do seem to spawn having a certain level of hate already built up against a random member of the alliance.

It's a similar idea to the Spiny Plume in Garuda Extreme (though those spawn with a LOT more enmity)

[Gamemako]

Most places, start with Tomahawk. LotA is a special case; I take IG with Steel Cyclone because healers feel it's their solemn duty in that dungeon to spam Medica and Medica 2 after the meteor does 400 damage to everyone. As a PLD, I'd just assume someone is hammering heals, so Fast Blade, follow with Provoke, and proceed with combo. PLD doesn't have any attacks that compete with Medica spam.