Introduce a whole lot of tribute to the best final fantasy game, Final Fantasy Tactic

[MiNuN]

Because this game doesn't get enough love in the FF world =(

[FJerome]

I dunno, I mean, there's already a lot to this game that makes it feel like Akihiko Yoshida is working behind the scenes to get in all the bits of the story from FF12 that he and Yasumi Matsuno were trying to tell before Yazmat had to leave and everything got mangled. Since FF12 was meant to be the first in the timeline of the Ivalice games, that's plenty tied-in to FF Tactics.

[TinyRedLeaf]

I enjoyed FFXII immensely, and felt it brought a welcome change to the franchise in terms of tone and presentation. It was mature to the point of being grim at several points and, like most of the other Final Fantasy games that are part of the Ivalice Alliance, it brooded heavily on the nature and necessity of power amid political and social turmoil, topics I happen to have great personal interest in.

So, it's no surprise that I also enjoyed Final Fantasy Tactics, way before I played FFXII. But in terms of Ivalice chronology, the events of FFT preceded those of FFXII. That's been officially confirmed.

[Enkidoh]

Do you have a source for that? It was my understanding that FFXII's story actually comes first in the Ivalice timeline - and that FFT was set in Ivalice's far future (for instance, in FFT it was stated that moogles were long extinct, hence the Moogle summon, and how Ivalice had reverted to a neo-medieval existence, with relics from a technologically advanced civilization being unearthed.) Not to mention Balthier turning up in FFT (the PSP remake) in a chronological appearance that took place after FFXII. But anyway, I digress.

Getting back on track, there are actually already quite a few Ivalice Alliance/FFT references in ARR already - the Corpse Brigade and their leader Millounde springs to mind for example. Then there's the names of the Ascians being the same as the Scions of Light from FFXII (not to mention Belias appears in the final SMN Job quest, and

Zodiark

is revealed to be the name of the Ascians' 'one true god' whom they're trying to revive. And who can forget Ungust's outburst channeling Delita's famous "blame yourselves or God" line from FFT?

There are plenty of FFT/FFXII references already in ARR, you just have to open your eyes and look for them.

[Skies]

Not to mention the very name of the white ascian is ALSO a direct call to FFT being the guy you fight in the last stage of that giant dungeon bonus area (and the implications are interesting)

[Andaeron]

In the FFXII Ultimania Omega, there is a dual timeline that shows the events of FFXII up top and those that lead up to FFT underneath. There are two points on the lines that are linked with a box that says, "Possibly the same person?" Each one mentions St. Ajora founding a new religion, though the top mentions a female St. Ajora, and the bottom just says St. Ajora starts the Glabados religion. The Scriptures of Germonique also state that Ajora was born in a time, "when airships yet plied the skies." There's more at the top of the page that I can't quite read (my Japanese isn't quite up to snuff), but it seems to talk about the connection between these two. I do know there was a calamity after Ajora's time that devastates both the technologies and many races of Ivalice, so that by the time of Tactics, nearly all the other civilized races are gone (including moogles).

My hope was that Hydaelyn was the world that Ivalice wasin, in the centuries leading up to FFXII's time.

[TinyRedLeaf]

Do you have a source for that? It was my understanding that FFXII's story actually comes first in the Ivalice timeline - and that FFT was set in Ivalice's far future (for instance, in FFT it was stated that moogles were long extinct, hence the Moogle summon, and how Ivalice had reverted to a neo-medieval existence, with relics from a technologically advanced civilization being unearthed.) Not to mention Balthier turning up in FFT (the PSP remake) in a chronological appearance that took place after FFXII.

I used to have the link, but I'm afraid I've lost it. The question was brought up in an interview with the producers, who confirmed that the events of FFXII came after FFT, not before as I, like you, also thought. Like you, I also thought it made sense to think of the world of FFXII as the "era of flying ships" mentioned in FFT. But apparently, it's not.

I'll try looking again for the source. In the meantime, what Andaeron quotes from the Ultimania Omega reference is as canon as it gets.

[Enkidoh]

That sounds to me more like Yasumi Matsuno's replacement as producer Hiroyuki Ito just didn't understand the lore that Matsuno had crafted and then went ahead and made his own interpretation (ala, setting FFT first chronologically in the timeline), ultimately contradicting everything. But ah well.

[TinyRedLeaf]

Arrrrgggh. It's annoying when I can't find something I'm pretty sure I read. These snippets of information are all I can find for now. They're taken from Wiki pages created and maintained by fans, who drew on information taken from sources like in-game lore and the FFXII Ultimania publication.

(1)
From the FF Compendium site: "The biggest link is that of Saint Ajora."

In FFXII, the Clan Primer mentions that Saint Ajora started a spinoff of the Light of Kiltia religion, the Glabados Church, approximately two thousand years earlier (Sage Knowledge 07). In FFT, Saint Ajora's life is placed as 1,200 years before the events of the game. This would seem to place FFXII 800 years after FFT.

If this were the case, the "Holy Empire Yudora" in power at the time of Ajora's life would predate King Raithwall's Galtean Alliance by 900 years, and the "Fara Church" would be FFT's name for the Light of Kiltia (Faram being the name of the ultimate deity in both). Another hint is in FF12RW. The description of the Glabados Ruins has this line: "Sky pirates assigned this name to the ruins as well, its true name lost to history." This seems to indicate that the name Glabados is quite old.

(2)
But a member of Lifestream Forums blames translation errors from Japanese to English for the confusion.

Pretty sure it happened when Ajora/Ultima was defeated 1,200 years before the events of Tactics. It's mentioned that with Ajora's death came a tidal wave that completely sank Murond (though dimensionally displaced would seem to be the more accurate fate) -- and, of course, there's an airship graveyard there, meaning that airships were still around up to the point at which Ajora died.

So, I'd say that points to Ajora's death being the catalyst for the Cataclysm that ended the Golden Age...

As for Ajora's identity through the ages, the Japanese version of FFXII (under Sage Knowledge 07, The Light of Kiltia) references St. Ajora with the female form of "Saint." It also mentions that this Ajora founded a new religion several years after the events of FFXII (the English translation of this is in error, saying instead that it was several years after Kiltia's founding -- 2000 years before the events of FFXII -- misleading many English-reading folks to think that FFXII came after FFT).

(3)
Meanwhile, there's Gameable Ivalice a comprehensive website created by a fan who compiled all the lore on Ivalice he could find. He was trying to put together a coherent world for table-top RPGs, but the project eventually stalled and was stillborn. He managed to put together a very impressive in-character chronology of Ivalice's Five Ages.

He says:

I’ve seen a surprising number of folks on the internet claim that XII comes before Tactics, but this one’s easy to disprove just by looking at the in-game lore:

“Religion begun by the prophet Kiltia over two millennia ago. [...] Several years after Kiltia’s founding, Saint Ajora began a new teaching, claiming that Faram alone was the one true god.”
— Final Fantasy XII

“Ajora was born in the Lesalian city of Bervenia twelve centuries ago.”
— Final Fantasy Tactics

And here's the clincher, he credits the interview I can no longer find.

Even without the lore, it’s a matter of record that XII comes after Tactics: According to a GameSpot Q&A with Final Fantasy XII personnel at the 2006 Tokyo Game Show, "while Final Fantasy Tactics involved very little technology, the world of Final Fantasy XII is highly technological since it takes place many years past the events of that game".

[Andaeron]

All I can find for now is that the upper portion of that page I mentioned says, つもり、「FFXII」の物語は、「FFT」より後世の「Ivalice」を舞台としている可能性もあるのだ。(It's probably that the stage of the tale of FFXII is set on Ivalice before that of FFT.) The only thing I can think of is that the Magic Pot bestiary text (taken from a translation) may be an error (or a liberal use of the phrase "several years"). I need to see if I can find a Japanese entry (so far nothing in any of the four Ultimanias I have for FFXII *geek*). The only thing I can offer is that there is a longer, more detailed timeline of the events leading up to year 706 Old Valendian (FFXII's setting) that does indeed mention the founding of the Church of Kiltias, yet nowhere is Ajora mentioned at all. Also, Kiltias and Galtea are the dominant religious settings, at least in the Dalmasca/Nabradia setting of FFXII, with "Faram" being a blessing akin to "Amen." I'll keep digging, but this WAY to fun to stop even though it is SO far off topic! XD