DevTalk: Detailed Analysis of Depopulation in Limsa/Grid and How to Fix It

[Physic]

they seem to be addressing most of the major concerns

By possibly destroying leve failing, they kind of kill the easy thanalan SP market, now even if they have good leves in thanlan, by making a reward occur on completion, and lowering the actual in leve reward, the balancing of what is a good leve will be somewhat different. not only that, but even whether you will actually have the good leves, will matter, while thanlan may have some of the best leves, i can tell you there are leves which compete in the other zones, and definiately there are leves which are only second to the best ones of thanalan.
So people, if they dont roll the best thanalan leves will have a reason to check other towns for best sp

so now that the thanaln best sp situation may be addressed we come to the marketing, the combination of guild leves only giving guildmarks in the proper towns, and people leveling in proper towns, will increase the need for being in other towns, and thus the marketability of selling in other towns. crafters will have even more reasons to work out of other towns, and a market to get while doing it. It is a little more likely you will see more specific things in certain areas, like woodworking crap in grid, etc.

Party search is going to be improved, if in fact leve linking is no longer the ultimate SP. because people will actually party, and seek parties, people may also start seeking leves, based on what they rolled, instead of doing the same ones with the same people. The also said they would add a search for party feature, which will even further improve the party search system, which if people are using isnt even that bad.

transportation issues: this is a real factor, and i think its also why he wants to get a very basic easy and fast airship system going city to city, a no cutscene form of travel from city to city that uses money instead of anima will open up travel.
This i think will eliminate the need to unify the MW, and though it will increase shopping times for bargain hunters, I think it will make it a good balance of bargain hunting and accessibility. For easy things you probably want to stay in towns, but for expensive or important gears you may check all three.
Also unifying wards can only work if they add a delivery type system, or they make MW not transport you to other towns. Not going to argue the benefits or problems with doing that, but suffice to say i dont think they are going to be able to do that type of big change anytime soon if they did decide to do it. So lets work with what is.

[Sorel]

How to fix this mess (in order of importance):

1. Rebalance leves so that the best ones are not all in Thanalan.
2. Ensure that there are convenient ways to get SP in all regions of Eorzea.
3. Combine the market wards from all 3 cities into the same instance.
4. Encourage players to do leves in different locations.
5. Implement Chocobos and Airships already!
6. Fix behests so that SP is not so strongly dependent on the number of participants.
7. Implement global shout channels so that players can interact with each other more easily even if they are in remote locations.
8. Improve the party search feature.

Very well thought out. Though I may not agree with all your points and/or reasoning, this is still a very impressive post.

Actually, the only thing I would flat out not want the Development Team to implement from your list is #7, the Global Shout channels.

#3 is going to be very tricky. Actually combining the Market Ward zones into one for all three cities poses a metaphysical problem that contradicts the current concept of the Market Wards. Not that Naoki Yoshida is scared of blowing away current concepts in the game ... but breaking the basic laws of space-time will require some forethought on everyone's part so that it makes sense.

I'm thinking TARDIS, myself.

[Fiosha_Maureiba]

Ul'dah, to me, is the most ergonomically designed and positioned city.

In between Limsa and Gridania.
When you teleport in, you're next to the Wards, the Adventurer's Guild, a vendor, a retainer, the repair NPC, and the exit of the city.

Unlike Gridania leves, you usually have an open space to get from the Camp to the leve in a straight line, rather than remember the correct paths in the maze. Where Limsa leves usually had extended running distances.

My concern, initially, is that this patch will shake things up for a while, and eventually once we find less value in guild marks, gravitate toward Ul'dah again due to convenience. Conjurers, archers, and lancers will be destroying their leves. Limsa Lominsians will be in need of other adventurers not swinging around an axe. And Ul'dahns will be swinging around their subligars in sexy sin at the Miner's Guild waiting to get [removed by Moderator: highly inappropriate]

But I guess I'm lookin' forward to the shuffle for a bit.

[Physic]

Ul'dah, to me, is the most ergonomically designed and positioned city.

In between Limsa and Gridania.
When you teleport in, you're next to the Wards, the Adventurer's Guild, a vendor, a retainer, the repair NPC, and the exit of the city.

Unlike Gridania leves, you usually have an open space to get from the Camp to the leve in a straight line, rather than remember the correct paths in the maze. Where Limsa leves usually had extended running distances.

My concern, initially, is that this patch will shake things up for a while, and eventually once we find less value in guild marks, gravitate toward Ul'dah again due to convenience. Conjurers, archers, and lancers will be destroying their leves. Limsa Lominsians will be in need of other adventurers not swinging around an axe. And Ul'dahns will be swinging around their subligars in sexy sin at the Miner's Guild waiting to get [removed by Moderator: highly inappropriate]

But I guess I'm lookin' forward to the shuffle for a bit.

the leves in ul dah arent really that good overall, its just that they had some really good ones, in a place people already hang out in. But if leve failing doesnt become worth it, then you wont always roll the cream of the crop leves, trust me, there are some pretty good leves in grid and limsa, definately on par with anything but dunesfolk.

[Kiara]

-CENTRALLY LOCATED IN THE WORLD

They are already addressing the first point, and in discussions about the 3rd point. But im wondering how they will address the last point. They cant just move Ul'Dah. Also, we can assume that new classes will have their guilds in LL or Grid to try and balance that out.

Hi Sigmakan,

Good point. This is one thing that I noticed early on in the game. As Renta said, since transportation is so limited, it was just easier to be in the "Middle" (Ul'dah) and that way, you only have to go "half as far" if you want to go to either LL or Gridania (if you chose to run to save anima), or it was easier to shout for a tele originally.

I think a long term fix that will help this a bit will be:

1. Coerthas Focus: Firstly, it's been confirmed that the R50 The Dzemael Darkhold's entrance is via Coerthas and Dragonhead. So Gridania is closer to Coerthas than Ul'dah or LL, so that's one thing that could help a bit.

Secondly, hopefully with the Guildleve Solo-Focus Changes in 1.18 and beyond, there will be Mob Redistribution and more places in Coerthas (or The Black Shroud / La Noscea) to Party SP Grind.

Thirdly (long term), whenever Ishgard opens up, that'll probably move all 3 cities' people towards that location (but then we get into a similar issue like it is now)

2. Mor Dhona: If Mor Dhona becomes a key area to spend time in (new Dungeons, new NMs, new SP Grind Areas, Grand Company Tasks out that way), that would also move some traffic out of Ul'dah (i.e., it's OK to stay in Gridania and walk East to Mor Dhona if you spend more time that way).

And as Renta said, Chocobos & Airships. If they make it pretty cheap in cost and fast in convenience, it won't be bad at all to stay in 1 City vs. another.

[Roaran]

If you look out long term, Ishguard will likely become the next central hub just as Jeuno was for FFXI. (Aht Urgan eventually became the next, but it's connection to Jeuno and the other 3 cities through the warp taru was the primary reason for this). With all the content that surrounds Ishguard I'd imagine there are things the devs are planning to address each of these issues that otherwise cannot be talked about.

But, I am in favor of a linking of the market wards. Mainly to help facilitate newer players and give the option for other players to play effectively from each of the cities.

[Kiara]

Hi Renta,

Great thread! Clear, well-thought out points and solutions brought up. Well done!

I agree with most of your points, but the 2 I'd disagree with would be:

(1) Unifying of the Markets - Not really disagreeing on the basic level, but on the level that SE needs to provide a solution for better Searching and Display Options; and realistically, a Square version of the SEC monitoring Fair Trade / Better Business Practices. Specifically:

Right now, we only see the Top 20 (Cheapest) Items on Search Results. By unifying the markets (and when this game gets more players on, and when SE grants us the ability to buy/get a 3rd Retainer (and 4th, etc.)), I can't imagine how the busier items are going to sell for many people. Even now (during the slowest time), for categories like Iron Nuggets or Iron Ore, all I see are:

ajfxygg x99 200 gil
ajfxygg x99 200 gil
ajfxygg x99 200 gil
ajfxygg x99 200 gil
ajfxygg x99 200 gil
ajfxygg x99 200 gil
ajfxygg x99 200 gil
ajfxygg x99 200 gil
ajfxygg x99 200 gil
ajfxygg x99 200 gil
xyzb x99 225 gil
xyzb x99 225 gil
xyzb x99 225 gil
xyzb x99 225 gil
xyzb x99 225 gil
etc.

It's beyond the scope of this thread to discuss how to solve that, but it's part of the problem of unifying markets. We'd get a lot of potential RMT Companies that want to control a market: They'd just use 2 or 3 of their extra Retainers, Dump their Goods at super low prices to drive out the competition, and then jack up the prices after everyone's gone.


(2) Global Shout: If it's a Channel you have to actively Subscribe to (and it's OFF (Unsubscribed) by default), I think it'd be OK. Otherwise, I'd be against having one.

Otherwise, this is a great list that I hope we see SE tackle. Some items are already being addressed like the SP Distribution, and focus of driving people to other Cities (Guild Marks, Rewards).

We'll see how it goes after 1.18 and 1.19. I'm glad we're seeing some changes soon.

[Delmontyb]

Excellent analysis, and some well thought out ideas.

I would love for their to be features, as well as Content that was exclusive to those cities as well. I feel you are spot on with your thoughts here, and would add that more city uniqueness is needed as well.

[Rentahamster]

If there is a minimum level requirement for airships/chocos then I still think this issue will exist. I'm interested to see how they address it. Quite a mind-boggling design decision. . .

It will still exist, but it won't be nearly so bad, as long as players aren't stuck with walking as almost the only choice.

Or, if they just add in a free ferry of somekind from Gridania to Limsa only, then that would solve most of the problems right there.

[Teknoman]

BTW about guild leves just in case people missed it:

http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...9a51563e165108