DevTalk: Detailed Analysis of Depopulation in Limsa/Grid and How to Fix It

[Rentahamster]

YoshiP recently commented about the fact that no one bothers to go to Limsa or Gridania anymore.

この3国の過疎問題は、吉田も非常に大きな問題と認識しています。
皆さんが挙げて頂いているように、都市そのものの利便性、周辺コンテンツの有用性が
そうさせているものと思います。

I have heard what you had to say regarding the the convenience and usefulness of the 3 towns, and I recognize that that the depopulation problem is very serious.

これを調整するためには
「ウルダハの利便性を下げるのではなく、他の2国の利便性を上げる」
「それぞれの国の特色（=コンテンツ,ギルドの調整）を出して調整する」
の2つの要素が必要になります。

Two main points to fix this problem are:

"Not decreasing Uldah's convenience, and increasing the convenience of Limsa and Gridania"

"Giving each city its own special flavor/characteristics (via content and guildleve fixes)"

So far so good, but let's take a more in-depth look at the root causes of the Limsa/Grid depopulation phenomenon. We'll take a look at the 3 main reasons (SP gain, economic gain, social interaction) that everyone opts to hang out in Uldah and how these 3 factors actually amplify each others' effects to form a self-reinforcing cycle.

(Now obviously, the main reason here is that the MASSIVE amount of players that have left this game since launch caused all the remaining players to want to band together. If we still had the same large population numbers that we had in September, then the player base would have to spread out naturally. But since nearly everyone left, it just exacerbates the effect of the following 3 main points. Getting the original user base to return to Erozea would be part of the master plan, and hopefully the solutions to the following 3 main problems of Limsa/Grid depopulation will help us move forwards towards that master plan.)


3 main reasons why everyone stays in Uldah (in order of importance):


SP GAIN

• Most of the leves with the best SP rewards are in Thanalan
• Coblyn genocide used to be the best way to gain SP in the game
• Shouting in Uldah is the best way to make an SP party
• Thanalan behests are the most crowded, and therefore have the best SP
• It's easier to buy grinding mats in Uldah to rank up your own crafting class

ECONOMIC GAIN

• There are more people in Uldah, so there are more potential customers to trade with
• The market wards are always full of stuff, so it's easier to conduct trading in Uldah
• There are more people who need repairs in Uldah.
• There are more people to look at your bazaar, and your retainers' bazaars

SOCIAL INTERACTION

• Anyone who wants social interaction has to come to Uldah since that is the place with the most people
• It's easier to find parties and recruit for linkshells by shouting in Uldah.
• All my friends end up hanging out in Uldah, so I need to hang out there as well.

(TRANSPORTATION COSTS)

• There is actually a 4th reason that doesn't really fit into the other categories, but is important nonetheless
• There are only 2 choices players have for transportaion: walking and teleporting
• Walking takes too long, and teleporting wastes anima, therefore the best option is usually just to stay put in Uldah due to lack of alternatives.

SP Gain - the main reason people want to go to Uldah.

Most people play this game to rank up their classes. They are going to do that in the fastest and most efficient way possible. This is an RPG, so SP gain is directly tied to character progression, a goal that we all have. Players, in general, are going to do whatever they can do get the most SP in order to advance their character's progression.

Since most players' main priority is getting SP, they are going to head to Uldah. Uldah's leves are the best for gaining SP, and it's also the best place to find a party since everyone is there anyway (self-reinforcing)

Since there's always people at the Thanalan Aetheryte camps, there's always people to fill up the behests, therefore making Thanalan behests the best place to gain behest SP.


Economic Gain - the secondary reason that follows the main reason

There isn't anything particularly special about Uldah itself in terms of economic benefit. The only reason it is more economically beneficial NOW, is because everyone hangs out at Uldah due to the first reason (it's the best place to get SP). Therefore, since everyone else hangs out in Uldah to get SP, there are more potential customers to sell stuff to. Therefore, all the buyers/sellers, and other economically-minded people have no choice but to come to Uldah too.

Back in September when there were many people online, we had bazaars at both the Limsa and Gridania adventurer guilds. They were profitable because of all the foot traffic. Now that the only foot traffic is in Uldah, the player bazaars (what's left of them) have to choice but to relocate to Uldah.

Wherever the bulk of the battle classes go, the merchants must follow in order to make money. Wherever the merchants go, the battle classes must follow in order to get repairs and buy new stuff. Again, these are more self-reinforcing cycles.


Social Interaction - the inevitable result of the first two reasons

So now, all your battlers and all your merchants have fled to Uldah. To someone who doesn't really care about that stuff, and whose main desire in an MMO is to chat and interact with other players socially, there is no choice but to follow along to Uldah as well.

In Gridania, no one can hear you /scream

Continued in the next post due to space constraints.

More on how to fix FF14 here: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/s...vBForum_Thread

[Rentahamster]

[SIZE=5]How to fix this mess (in order of importance):[/SIZE]


Rebalance leves so that the best ones are not all in Thanalan

They are already moving towards that goal by instituting a set SP reward upon leve completion.

If all leves give out the same rewards for the same amount of effort, there will be no reason to stay exclusively in any one area like there is now.


Ensure that there are convenient ways to get SP in all regions of Eorzea

As long as there is suitable content that lets players get SP in each region, players will go to that region.

As long as any one region is not overwhelmingly better than the other, players will be able to freely spread out according to personal taste.

An emphasis on open-world grinding will also help in this regard. If there are more viable places in the world to grind mobs, players will go there. The developers would do well to encourage this and to get players to explore their world more by rewarding them for doing so.

See here for more details how:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-How-to-Fix-it

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...Dynamic-Erozea



Combine the market wards from all 3 cities into the same instance

Recently, FF11 did this with their auction houses because really, there is no point in having them all be separate. Currently, you are punished whenever you go to Limsa or Gridania because the market wards over there are barren due to the reasons I stated above.

If all the cities' market wards were combined, it would make all 3 cities equal in convenience with respect to market ward economic advantage. For pure merchants, that would meant that there is almost no reason to have to stay in Uldah all the time. All 3 cities would have equal convenience and money-making potential.

Carpenters, Armorers, Leatherworkers, Culinarians, etc who need to use guild support can do so in their respective cities without having to feel like they are missing out on sales due to not having access to the Uldah market wards.

This alone would go very very far to achieve what YoshiP stated his main objectives were - not to decrease Uldah's convenience, but to increase the convenience of the other 2 cities.


Encourage players to do leves in different locations

There is a current mechanic that does that now - leve exchanging. Exchanging leves from different leves gives you a higher multiplier bonus. However, this only lets you get more gil and guildmarks, which we all know are pretty much useless.

1. Make the rewards for leve exchanging more varied and desirable
2. Make it easier and more intuitive for players to exchange leves
3. Increase the relative value of gil (hard to do) See this thread for ideas: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/11434-DevTalk-GIL-SINKS!-Ideas-to-Stabilize-the-Economy-and-Curb-Inflation
4. Increase the value of guildmarks by giving us more abilities to buy, as well as items and equipment that are only obtainable by purchasing them from the guilds with guildmarks.

Implement Chocobos and Airships already!

Why oh why were these features not already in the game at retail launch???

The players need more methods of transportation, and the current 2 choices (walking and teleporting) are woefully inadequate.

Players need a quick way to travel between the cities that does not eat up anima.

In-depth outline for chocobo implementation can be found here:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-Want-Your-Fix


Fix behests so that SP is not so strongly dependent on the number of participants

Mainly, have each behest spawn the max amount of mobs whether you have only 1 participant, or 8.

See this thread for additional ideas: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ehest-Feedback


Implement global shout channels so that players can interact with each other more easily even if they are in remote locations.

I know this is a controversial topic, but I feel that this would do more good than harm. Currently, social interaction is too dependent on location, because no one is going to hear you if you don't shout in Uldah.

De-link that association, and players will be free to move elsewhere without repercussions. I laid out a plan for this in a previous thread:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...g-Improvements

Additional Chat Log Improvements:

Add the functions /l1, /l2, /l3, /l4 etc so that we can change linkshells without having to access the menu.

Add more tabs for each window.

Add more categories for chat text color. Specifically, the ability to alter only the chat log text about "parry", "evade", and "block", so that it is easier to use reactionary skills like Phalanx, Fracture, Haymaker, and Jarring Strike.

Add 4 new global shout categories that broadcast to the entire server rather than just the immediate area. Each one would be for each of the different languages (Japanese, English, German, French) (/jp, /en, /gr, /fr)

Add 1 global shout category just for party finding. Limit each player to one shout per 20 minutes to prevent spamming.

Add 1 global shout category just for buying/selling. Limit each player to one shout per 20 minutes to prevent spamming.

Improve the party search feature

No one uses it now because it is very unintuitive. Just copy the system from FF11 where you can set up a "looking for party" flag along with comments, so that party leaders can find YOU, instead of the other way around.

The current implementation is TERRIBLY flawed now because there are more people looking for parties than people who want to make parties. The current implementation assumes the opposite and is designed to favor the opposite, for some odd reason.


Give us /sea please

Look at how much easier it is in FF11 to put together a party: http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.htm...614&howmany=50



Well, that's pretty much the bulk of it right there. Of course there are many other details and nuances regarding the Limsa/Gridania depopulation phenemenon, but if the devs take the suggestions I laid out into consideration, I'm confident that it would solve a lot of the current problems.

Please add your ideas and contribute to the discussion below. If you think any of my points are misguided or wrong, feel free to elaborate.

More ways to fix FF14: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/s...vBForum_Thread

[Fated]

It's funny, but by implementing the changes of 1.18 they are in fact making Ul'dah less convenient. Good job, SE.

[Rentahamster]

It's funny, but by implementing the changes of 1.18 they are in fact making Ul'dah less convenient. Good job, SE.

What changes in particular are you talking about? The changes to leves?

[yukikaze_yanagi]

Pretty much that. Since They putting guild mark and varius reward bound to city states (not speaking of grand companies, whatever they are) people naturally will end to gather in that city while crafting/ leves for marks. That don't resolve the market ward issue, but it's a start.
also, the existing sp grind camp aren't in thanalan

[MantiTeran]

It's funny, but by implementing the changes of 1.18 they are in fact making Ul'dah less convenient. Good job, SE.

Yea im lost here to

[Rentahamster]

also, the existing sp grind camp aren't in thanalan

Yes, I know, but it used to be due to Coblyns.

Also, the best grinding places (mun tuy, mistbeard, nine ivies, treespeak, riversmeet, camp glory, boulder downs, crooked fork, zelma's run, etc) are rendered moot because leve-linking parties are so overwhelmingly better for SP. That was my point.

[Sigmakan]

Many things you listed are a self-propagating. They result from having so many people in Ul'Dah. Better question, why did so many people come to Ul'Dah?

-Best leves
-Most guild halls
-Most convenient layout
-CENTRALLY LOCATED IN THE WORLD

They are already addressing the first point, and in discussions about the 3rd point. But im wondering how they will address the last point. They cant just move Ul'Dah. Also, we can assume that new classes will have their guilds in LL or Grid to try and balance that out.

[Rentahamster]

-CENTRALLY LOCATED IN THE WORLD

They are already addressing the first point, and in discussions about the 3rd point. But im wondering how they will address the last point. They cant just move Ul'Dah. Also, we can assume that new classes will have their guilds in LL or Grid to try and balance that out.

This is only a major issue because of the lack of transportation options. In a world where we have no choice but to walk or waste anima, a centrally located hub is the most convenient.

However, once Chocobos and city to city airship travel are implemented, the centrality of Uldah will be of less importance.

Hmm, I thought I had mentioned that part but I guess not. I'll edit it in later.

[Sigmakan]

This is only a major issue because of the lack of transportation options. In a world where we have no choice but to walk or waste anima, a centrally located hub is the most convenient.

However, once Chocobos and city to city airship travel are implemented, the centrality of Uldah will be of less importance.

If there is a minimum level requirement for airships/chocos then I still think this issue will exist. I'm interested to see how they address it. Quite a mind-boggling design decision. . .