DevTalk: Detailed Analysis of Depopulation in Limsa/Grid and How to Fix It

[Sigmakan]

Many things you listed are a self-propagating. They result from having so many people in Ul'Dah. Better question, why did so many people come to Ul'Dah?

-Best leves
-Most guild halls
-Most convenient layout
-CENTRALLY LOCATED IN THE WORLD

They are already addressing the first point, and in discussions about the 3rd point. But im wondering how they will address the last point. They cant just move Ul'Dah. Also, we can assume that new classes will have their guilds in LL or Grid to try and balance that out.

[Rentahamster]

-CENTRALLY LOCATED IN THE WORLD

They are already addressing the first point, and in discussions about the 3rd point. But im wondering how they will address the last point. They cant just move Ul'Dah. Also, we can assume that new classes will have their guilds in LL or Grid to try and balance that out.

This is only a major issue because of the lack of transportation options. In a world where we have no choice but to walk or waste anima, a centrally located hub is the most convenient.

However, once Chocobos and city to city airship travel are implemented, the centrality of Uldah will be of less importance.

Hmm, I thought I had mentioned that part but I guess not. I'll edit it in later.

[Sigmakan]

This is only a major issue because of the lack of transportation options. In a world where we have no choice but to walk or waste anima, a centrally located hub is the most convenient.

However, once Chocobos and city to city airship travel are implemented, the centrality of Uldah will be of less importance.

If there is a minimum level requirement for airships/chocos then I still think this issue will exist. I'm interested to see how they address it. Quite a mind-boggling design decision. . .

[Rentahamster]

If there is a minimum level requirement for airships/chocos then I still think this issue will exist. I'm interested to see how they address it. Quite a mind-boggling design decision. . .

It will still exist, but it won't be nearly so bad, as long as players aren't stuck with walking as almost the only choice.

Or, if they just add in a free ferry of somekind from Gridania to Limsa only, then that would solve most of the problems right there.

[Quoc]

Give newcomers and veterans a reason to play or return to the game and re-population will fix itself. Ways to do that is to get rid of fatigue and timers completely. And if that's not in the plan book, get rid of the subscription fee so that we're not paying to "wait" to play.

[Kiara]

-CENTRALLY LOCATED IN THE WORLD

They are already addressing the first point, and in discussions about the 3rd point. But im wondering how they will address the last point. They cant just move Ul'Dah. Also, we can assume that new classes will have their guilds in LL or Grid to try and balance that out.

Hi Sigmakan,

Good point. This is one thing that I noticed early on in the game. As Renta said, since transportation is so limited, it was just easier to be in the "Middle" (Ul'dah) and that way, you only have to go "half as far" if you want to go to either LL or Gridania (if you chose to run to save anima), or it was easier to shout for a tele originally.

I think a long term fix that will help this a bit will be:

1. Coerthas Focus: Firstly, it's been confirmed that the R50 The Dzemael Darkhold's entrance is via Coerthas and Dragonhead. So Gridania is closer to Coerthas than Ul'dah or LL, so that's one thing that could help a bit.

Secondly, hopefully with the Guildleve Solo-Focus Changes in 1.18 and beyond, there will be Mob Redistribution and more places in Coerthas (or The Black Shroud / La Noscea) to Party SP Grind.

Thirdly (long term), whenever Ishgard opens up, that'll probably move all 3 cities' people towards that location (but then we get into a similar issue like it is now)

2. Mor Dhona: If Mor Dhona becomes a key area to spend time in (new Dungeons, new NMs, new SP Grind Areas, Grand Company Tasks out that way), that would also move some traffic out of Ul'dah (i.e., it's OK to stay in Gridania and walk East to Mor Dhona if you spend more time that way).

And as Renta said, Chocobos & Airships. If they make it pretty cheap in cost and fast in convenience, it won't be bad at all to stay in 1 City vs. another.

[Kiara]

Hi Renta,

Great thread! Clear, well-thought out points and solutions brought up. Well done!

I agree with most of your points, but the 2 I'd disagree with would be:

(1) Unifying of the Markets - Not really disagreeing on the basic level, but on the level that SE needs to provide a solution for better Searching and Display Options; and realistically, a Square version of the SEC monitoring Fair Trade / Better Business Practices. Specifically:

Right now, we only see the Top 20 (Cheapest) Items on Search Results. By unifying the markets (and when this game gets more players on, and when SE grants us the ability to buy/get a 3rd Retainer (and 4th, etc.)), I can't imagine how the busier items are going to sell for many people. Even now (during the slowest time), for categories like Iron Nuggets or Iron Ore, all I see are:

ajfxygg x99 200 gil
ajfxygg x99 200 gil
ajfxygg x99 200 gil
ajfxygg x99 200 gil
ajfxygg x99 200 gil
ajfxygg x99 200 gil
ajfxygg x99 200 gil
ajfxygg x99 200 gil
ajfxygg x99 200 gil
ajfxygg x99 200 gil
xyzb x99 225 gil
xyzb x99 225 gil
xyzb x99 225 gil
xyzb x99 225 gil
xyzb x99 225 gil
etc.

It's beyond the scope of this thread to discuss how to solve that, but it's part of the problem of unifying markets. We'd get a lot of potential RMT Companies that want to control a market: They'd just use 2 or 3 of their extra Retainers, Dump their Goods at super low prices to drive out the competition, and then jack up the prices after everyone's gone.


(2) Global Shout: If it's a Channel you have to actively Subscribe to (and it's OFF (Unsubscribed) by default), I think it'd be OK. Otherwise, I'd be against having one.

Otherwise, this is a great list that I hope we see SE tackle. Some items are already being addressed like the SP Distribution, and focus of driving people to other Cities (Guild Marks, Rewards).

We'll see how it goes after 1.18 and 1.19. I'm glad we're seeing some changes soon.

[Rentahamster]

Hi Renta,

Great thread! Clear, well-thought out points and solutions brought up. Well done!

Thanks

I agree with most of your points, but the 2 I'd disagree with would be:

(1) Unifying of the Markets - Not really disagreeing on the basic level, but on the level that SE needs to provide a solution for better Searching and Display Options; and realistically, a Square version of the SEC monitoring Fair Trade / Better Business Practices. Specifically:

Right now, we only see the Top 20 (Cheapest) Items on Search Results. By unifying the markets (and when this game gets more players on, and when SE grants us the ability to buy/get a 3rd Retainer (and 4th, etc.)), I can't imagine how the busier items are going to sell for many people. Even now (during the slowest time), for categories like Iron Nuggets or Iron Ore, all I see are:

ajfxygg x99 200 gil
ajfxygg x99 200 gil
ajfxygg x99 200 gil
ajfxygg x99 200 gil
ajfxygg x99 200 gil
ajfxygg x99 200 gil
ajfxygg x99 200 gil
ajfxygg x99 200 gil
ajfxygg x99 200 gil
ajfxygg x99 200 gil
xyzb x99 225 gil
xyzb x99 225 gil
xyzb x99 225 gil
xyzb x99 225 gil
xyzb x99 225 gil
etc.

It's beyond the scope of this thread to discuss how to solve that, but it's part of the problem of unifying markets. We'd get a lot of potential RMT Companies that want to control a market: They'd just use 2 or 3 of their extra Retainers, Dump their Goods at super low prices to drive out the competition, and then jack up the prices after everyone's gone.

The retainer capacity issue is more a problem with the game and server code, in my opinion. If they just scrap the NPC retainers for now and stick with a menu-driven interface, they could fix a lot of these problems really easily.

Item search could be optimized more with the elimiation of redundant listings if the same character has multiple stacks of the same item for sale at the same price.

As for your point about RMT, "driving out the competition" in an MMO doesn't really work like how it does in the real world. In an MMO, there is no barrier to anyone farming the same stuff that RMT bots do.

Plus, with a price history that goes back a full year, forcefully manipulating perceived price becomes very hard and very expensive to do.


But anyway, improving the item search feature does not address the issues that a unified wards would address - it wouldn't encourage players to travel to other cities at all. The point of a unified wards is so that a player feel free to go to another city, but not be punished for being outside the access of the Uldah wards.

(2) Global Shout: If it's a Channel you have to actively Subscribe to (and it's OFF (Unsubscribed) by default), I think it'd be OK. Otherwise, I'd be against having one.

I would have the default set to off. With the addition of more chat tabs, the best way to customize the display for global shouts would be to have them all in a separate tab.

Honestly, I'm a little surprised at the opposition to optional global shouts. It has more positive implications for social activity and player interaction than negative ones. After all, isn't player to player interaction what an MMO is supposed to be all about?

[RabidSquirrel]

I would have the default set to off. With the addition of more chat tabs, the best way to customize the display for global shouts would be to have them all in a separate tab.

Global chat set to a different chat tab...damn. I don't know why that thought never occurred to me. Something like that would be awesome.

But it would still be nice to have a few global chats. Like one for trade, one for parties, one for raids, etc. Might at least help split up the inevitable headbutting that will happen over any chat.

[Rentahamster]

Global chat set to a different chat tab...damn. I don't know why that thought never occurred to me. Something like that would be awesome.

But it would still be nice to have a few global chats. Like one for trade, one for parties, one for raids, etc. Might at least help split up the inevitable headbutting that will happen over any chat.

I like the way my chat logs are set up.

I have the main window on the bottom, with the first tab set to show everything (minus a few of the more spammy battle logs), and the second tab to show only battle logs.

I have the second chat window right above the first window, with the first tab labeled, "linkshell" - it shows only linkshell text. The second tab is labeled "party", and it only shows party chat, say, and tell.