I think there should be a server for just LEET's?( half joking)

[Delsus]

On the more serious half, I don't know why people think "elite" players DON'T have fun. One could say they put up 1-shot / 2 death rules to avoid people ruining their fun

It depends who you talk to, some people say "elite" players ruin other people's fun with instant kicks on one death, doesn't matter how it happens, lag etc, preventing people doing content (and yes it does happen, just look at the party finder) Others would say some of the insane gear requirements (hello people who say full AF is under geared for WP) And then there are people who expect carries, "LFM for first run of Thornmarch" "LFM highly experienced Thornmarch party" which would you join?

All of these are barriers that prevent, and would sometimes cause a brick wall for new players.

I aren't taking sides, just adding another side of the argument.

[AmyNeudaiz]

I aren't taking sides, just adding another side of the argument.

I've always joined learning parties when I was doing just that - learning.
The problem is that elite and casual don't like playing with each other as they both ruin each other's fun *for the most part. For that reason these two types of players are incompatible, so I think it would be in everyone's best interest if people used party finder to find like-minded players and there is nothing wrong with that.

[Delsus]

I've always joined learning parties when I was doing just that - learning.
The problem is that elite and casual don't like playing with each other as they both ruin each other's fun *for the most part. For that reason these two types of players are incompatible, so I think it would be in everyone's best interest if people used party finder to find like-minded players and there is nothing wrong with that.

You just need to look at the party finder, to see how things are, one death kick parties can out number more casual parties up to 20 to one at times. I can see where elite players come from getting sick of people dying all the time. But sometimes the parties can be impossible to enter for new or more casual players. Casual =/= bad.

[AmyNeudaiz]

You just need to look at the party finder, to see how things are, one death kick parties can out number more casual parties up to 20 to one at times

Unfortunately this is a community issue that people think in order to get a good party you need to set up these rules. More people should make party finder groups that cater to their mentality instead of complaining that there are none because that doesn't help. There are plenty of people, including myself, who would join if they saw that "Until we complete the duty" checked.

And yes, I understand casual =/= bad in the same way elitist =/= good but my sentiment is more towards player mentality. "One wipe and that's it" is more of an elitist mindset and "We wiped, but that's ok let's keep going until we win" is more of a casual mindset and this is what I mean.

[Edenholt]

More people should make party finder groups that cater to their mentality instead of complaining that there are none because that doesn't help.

This.

This way we wouldn't have this kind of threads. The feeling that I get is that a person prefer to come and complain they don't have a PF group that accept him than start their own group and find people with the same problem so they can help each other. The feeling that I get is that people that complain about those "l337" group instead of making their own, don't really believe in what they say, they're just upset because they wanted to join a group full with people that already know the fight to get a kill. The feeling that I get is that people should reall stop complaining and go help themselves, instead of talk about people who really don't care if the complainer have got their kill for the week or not, because the time people are wasting QQing on the forums, those "l33ts" got to finish their primal weekly.

PS: that's just my opinion based on the kind of arguments I see in these forums. I have my static and keep distance from DF and PF as much as possible, although I do love joining learning groups just to give some help with whatever information I can.

[Delsus]

More people should make party finder groups that cater to their mentality instead of complaining that there are none because that doesn't help.

I do agree with this, however more casuals prefer to use the DF where possible, it takes no effort, and depending on your class it can be really fast (less than 5 mins for healers in leveling dungeons) and that ends up leaving PF for players who want one shot kills, and others have to either find a like-minded FC or submit to the randomness of DF.

[Mogi]

Is this not why they have link shells and FC? can't you just make a FC and or link shell for players with all i90 gear or for the most hardcore?

[Lyrinn]

You just need to look at the party finder, to see how things are, one death kick parties can out number more casual parties up to 20 to one at times. I can see where elite players come from getting sick of people dying all the time. But sometimes the parties can be impossible to enter for new or more casual players. Casual =/= bad.

Nothing is stopping casual players from making their own parties. I made a learning group for Garuda EX because I couldn't find one for myself - and a whole two people joined after 1h. Do you know what that tells me? Most "casuals" are looking for carries, groups they think have a good chance at winning despite picking up an inexperienced player - and those groups happen to be the ones with the kick rules. No surprise that there would be whining over it.