Market Wards vs AH

[Abriael]

Yea...that's your last defensive argument...

How about taking a look at all the private server MMOs out there.

YOu can see what it's like yourself..but then you might not like the fact it's less high tech then you think in terms of item ID manipulation.

You forgot a little detail. Those private server MMOs have been taken up when the code was already done, finished, polished and tested. You quite evidently have no idea of what it takes to get to that point.

Actually Bazaars are harder to implement then an AH. It's actually connected to a player that has to be track.

Actually Bazars aren't connected to players. They are connected to retainers. And retainers are just code. They aren't independent entities with an AI that may suddenly decide to rebel, you know?
A retainer is nothing else than a module of a database. The implementation is slightly different (you add the items to a retainer, and the retainer's inventory is added to the database as a whole, instead of having you adding the items to the database directly), but not THAT much different.

Every other difference is cosmetic.

Stop trying to devalue AH because you want Market wards to look good.

There's no need to devalue anything. The Market wards ARE an AH with a graphical interface. The only big different is that the Market Wards are already there, an AH has to be done from scratch, and the development and testing resources it would need are better used elsewhere.

Because it's complexity for the sake of complexity.

Why figure out a faster way to carry buckets on your head...when you can carry buckets...with you know hands. It was foolish to carry buckets on your head in the first place anyway, that's why market wards are so bad.

Must be why millions of people in the world carry buckets on their head? Are they all foolish?
What about those that use a yoke? all foolish? What about a truck? What a bunch of fools.

It's not complexity for the sake of complexity. The MW already include features that no AH has.

[kukurumei]

There's no need to devalue anything. The Market wards ARE an AH with a graphical interface. The only big different is that the Market Wards are already there, an AH has to be done from scratch, and the development and testing resources it would need are better used elsewhere.

That is sort of true...after the overhaul market wards have gotten close to AH basic functions. That still doesn't solve the problem of being inferior in every way to an AH, with extra complexity.

So would you rather spend a month every time you add a feature to market wards or bug fix it because it's crowded or collision, or any other number of problems.

Or make an AH that can be done in under a month at most.

I'll take the AH.

[Abriael]

That is sort of true...after the overhaul market wards have gotten close to AH basic functions. That still doesn't solve the problem of being inferior in every way to an AH, with extra complexity.

So would you rather spend a month every time you add a feature to market wards or bug fix it because it's crowded or collision, or any other number of problems.

Or make an AH that can be done in under a month at most.

I'll take the AH.

You overstimate the complexity of the market wards over the AH by quite a lot. They are a database. The AH is a database. They are handled in slightly different ways in implementation, but the added complexity is mostly in the cosmetic aspect of the wards, which is already coded and nicely ready.

Your estimates of the times needed to add a feature to the market wards are completely arbitrary.
As it's completely arbitrary your estimate of the time needed to create an AH, and TEST it. It took several months in FFXI, just to bring an example, and initially it was buggy as hell.

And finally, the market wards allow featrures that an AH does not have. In an AH you can't go around and see an armor worn before purchasing it, for instance, unless you create a completely new preview interface, adding to the complexity of the AH (and then it defeats the purpose of avoiding complexity, isn't it?)

The "inferior in every way" is rather funny, because there's not even one feature of an AH that cannot be implemented in the market wards system as it is now.

[Xzen]

That is sort of true...after the overhaul market wards have gotten close to AH basic functions. That still doesn't solve the problem of being inferior in every way to an AH, with extra complexity.

So would you rather spend a month every time you add a feature to market wards or bug fix it because it's crowded or collision, or any other number of problems.

Or make an AH that can be done in under a month at most.

I'll take the AH.

Even with an AH it would take that long to implement a new function. Once it get's to the point where you walk up to an NPC behind a counter placed just outside the market wards and maybe 2 or 3 other places around the cities where you can buy/sell all from that NPC it'll all be good and the same as having an AH. It'll get there. Why do you ask? Because that is what we all want!

[kukurumei]

Even with an AH it would take that long to implement a new function. Once it get's to the point where you walk up to an NPC behind a counter placed just outside the market wards and maybe 2 or 3 other places around the cities where you can buy/sell all from that NPC it'll all be good and the same as having an AH. It'll get there. Why do you ask? Because that is what we all want!

Adding a function in a classical AH..say you want to add a reputation feature to it. Guess what, you add a reputation field in SQL, and you edit your filter code to if/or reputation field. Done. Maybe an hour...a day if you need to make better graphics like stars icon.

Geez..it's like people are stuck in the 80s. Seriously... I thought with so many people using Excel, they'll at least know what a modern database is.

Here's a simple Excel microcosm of querying.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgb_r...eature=related

2minutes not including data input. SQL is just more powerful and robust.

[Abriael]

Adding a function in a classical AH..say you want to add a reputation feature to it. Guess what, you add a reputation field in SQL, and you edit your filter code to if/or reputation field. Done. Maybe an hour...a day if you need to make better graphics like stars icon.

You forgot that lovely little thing called testing, without which new MMORPG implementations tend to go horribly wrong.

Mind you, development-wise, adding the same feature for the market wards wouldn't probably take a minute more.

[kukurumei]

You forgot that lovely little thing called testing, without which new MMORPG implementations tend to go horribly wrong.

Mind you, development-wise, adding the same feature for the market wards wouldn't probably take a minute more.

Probably...if they didn't have to hack market wards up so much. Still about 20 times more complex. I personally theorized they had to hack Wards to have 2 or databases because retainers database look up wasn't in the cards when they implemented. Essentially they made a fake AH database in front of the retainers, which was probably similar to players type.

As for testing... If you can test an excel program you can test a sql. That's why it's so mature. Everything already works, you're just doing "lookup".

There is very little actual code these days.

[Abriael]

Probably...if they didn't have to hack market wards up so much. Still about 20 times more complex. I personally theorized they had to hack Wards to have 2 or databases because retainers database look up wasn't in the cards when they implemented. Essentially they made a fake AH database in front of the retainers, which was probably similar to players type.

Whatever they had to do. It's done. The system is in place. The databade is working. Continuing to build upon it is more efficent than creating a completely new one and having to build upon it AGAIN.

As for testing... If you can test an excel program you can test a sql. That's why it's so mature. Everything already works, you're just doing "lookup".

There is very little actual code these days.

Again, you're seriously underestimating the problem. But that's nothing new.

[Naylia]

Or make an AH that can be done in under a month at most.

I'll take the AH.

LOL!!! Under a month!! Funniest thing I've heard all day

[Abriael]

LOL!!! Under a month!! Funniest thing I've heard all day

I told him to send in a resume to SE. Seriously, if he can do (and test) an AH in under a month, he has a bright future in the industry.

but he chickened out....