Coloured Dyes Removing: 'Shader effect'

[Shioban]

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Patch 2.38 Addition
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Thank you for taking the feedback of myself and the community and finally adding metallic dye options!

This is a great way to add more variety to gear!



As well as Pure White/Jet Black




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NEW Developer Response
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Greetings,

After looking over the requests and feedback, the graphics team has decided that when adding metallic equipment in the future, even if dyes are used, the metallic quality will be maintained and not appear to be painted over. They also mentioned that they will be looking into doing this for existing equipment as well, but they would like to prioritize new equipment.

Developers changed their mind it seems (a bit) and considered the feedback in the thread. Thank you for your support on making a community-feedback change!


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Developer Response
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Greetings,

We checked with the Graphics team to see if there was anything shady going on regarding this, and they wanted us to pass along their reasoning as to why the appearance of gear changes after being dyed.

Metal equipment was created to have an enamel-like look to it when it is dyed, just like if you painted something metallic in real life. Similarly, cloth equipment was also designed to function the same way as real life, so the texture changes when it is dyed because the cloth is soaking up the dye.

As both types of equipment were created like this intentionally, the team does not have any plans to change the textures.

The developers have decided it's best to stick to realism, which is a little odd.
But (/shrug) If you're still not happy with this, please continue to express why, you never know if they'll change their minds.

Original;

WELP. They're not changing it.
Based MMO devs have spoken.

(I changed what I wrote here to keep you happy Wilan, apparently I'm pretentious if the decision isn't favourable for the vast majority)

YOU KNOW WRITING YOUR THOUGHTS IN CAPS LOCK and all bold with a big character doesn't really make them look more right than the other. It just makes you look pretentious.
You don't like the effect, too bad for you, but that's working as intended and has always been so. And it makes sense. You are painting metal, what did you expect, for metal to magically change its molecular properties and reflecting different wavelenghts of light? No, there is now a coat of paint on top of the metal.
Get over it.

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ORIGINAL POST
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Currently certain types of gear offer a different surface shader;

What is a shader?

Think of it as an effect that can be applied ontop of a 3D model to provide a certain affect or look. (Metal, Plastic, Matte, Light Reflection/Refreactions). Essentially the shader dictacts how light and shading in the scene affects the surface of the object, and also how light reacts to the surface of the object.

Currently gear such as the Caster Militia Set (And more recently) the Warwolf PvP gear makes use of this 'Shiny' shader.

What does this have to do with dyes exactly?

Currently, if you try to dye any of the gear using this shader, the shader effect is then turned off. As the shader is applied as a post-texture effect it really shouldn't be doing this.

What do these effects even look like, got any examples?

Here are some examples (It's harder to see in an image as the object isn't moving, but if you can purchase or craft yourself a Militia Robe or Tights you can see this nice shader effect disappearing when you dye it.

Militia Robe

Militia Tights

Warwolf Cuirass Of Fending

Cobalt Haubergeon

I STILL DON'T GET IT, SHOW ME IT IN ACTION

I really really still don't see it...

Don't worry Gramul is here to save the day! [Again]

Note how the undyed edges stay shiny. Also, an interesting feature about this armor is that it seems to turn more silvery in sunlight when undyed.
But anyway, like Shioban said, it's low priority but nice to have.

I still see a bit of shine though?!
Yes! That's the specular effect, sadly not the same as the shader effect which is applied on top of that, as I said it's very hard to see from the image, it's something thats easier seen in-game.
NOTE: On some gear is does seem to be just dampening the specular effect level, whilst others its removing a shader.


So, what can be done?

Simply show your support by liking for posting in the thread and let the developers know if you agree and would like to see the shader effect across all colours as opposed to just the original. It's a beautiful effect that gets lost sadly when we try to use the dye system, I'd be a low priority but nice addition.

People will whine about anything these days!

This is a request, please be mature and respectful, if you think it's not a worthwhile addition or something you have no interest in just disregard the thread all together.


// Additionally : Feature idea: =====This feature has been added as of 2.38 > 2.4=====

Would it be possible whilst we're on the subject make shader dyes avaliable outside of these pieces of gear? This would open up a new market for dyes and crafting, as the dyes could be more bespoke and difficult to craft/obtain than normal dyes, this would be an interesting solution.

Basicly applying the Militia Gear/PvP gear effect to other pieces of gear by applying the new type of Dye.

As the shader effects are easily applied to any 3D object this shouldn't be too much of a mammoth of a task.

[Linadae]

I support all of this. Still while we may have to wait a bit for your dye suggestion I think we'll see an armor fix before too long.

[TeaTimeBear]

You have my support too.

[Rufalus]

Great thread and I noticed this too although I don't have the technical knowledge to explain what's going on as well as you did here. You are right the difference in-game is very noticeable and it's strange that it's happening.

[Ulathskullsplitter]

You should have done a comparison with a haubergeon that changes the color of the chain mail.They have a metallic shine to the chain mail parts before dying but after dying they lose it and look like they are sewn with yarn instead of metal.

edit. I'm at work right now or I'd do it myself.

[Shioban]

You should have done a comparison with a haubergeon that changes the color of the chain mail.They have a metallic shine to the chain mail parts before dying but after dying they lose it and look like they are sewn with yarn instead of metal.

I don't have one sorry!

However I'm currently making some high quality GIFs to show off the difference (which is easier to see with things moving in the scene) I'll update it here soon.

[Shioban]

Adding the following GIF's to the Original Post;

[Calyanare]

Are you absolutely sure this is what's happening, and not, say, the lighter color dyes just not being affected as much by the shader that is still there? All of your examples show light dyes being used on darker materials--what happens if you use another dark dye? A medium dye?

[Shioban]

Are you absolutely sure this is what's happening, and not, say, the lighter color dyes just not being affected as much by the shader that is still there? All of your examples show light dyes being used on darker materials--what happens if you use another dark dye? A medium dye?

As I said it's very very hard to see in an image, which is why I encouraged people in the OP to try it out in-game.

Essentially when you're toying with 3D models you can apply "layers" of effects.
So you can apply a reflective map, and then a bump map, then a specualr one, then apply a unique shader material on top of all of those.

What they've done with the PvP set especially is added in this extra shader effect that gets removed when you dye it ANY colour. I am 100% sure that the shader effect is being removed, especially noticeable on metallic objects.

The PvP set is just the most jarring of the lot.


Edit:

I've tested this with every single dye (thanks to the zoomable dye window) and the effect is definitely being lost across all dyes, only the original non-dyed version retains the shader effect. (However on some pieces of gear the specular effect remains, leaving a slight shiny effect giving the illusion that one might think it simply "dimmed" it)

[cotti]

Now that's a very well thought-out and explained situation.

This deserves some attention. While subtle, such details comprise one of the best parts on ARR. The resolution can be low, but the textures are gorgeous and are being lost.