Rank cap increase every 1-2 years discussion thread

[Sorel]

Is there any practical difference between a Level 30 piece of equipment being made obsolete by a Level 40 piece of equipment, versus a Level 50 piece of equipment being made obsolete by a Level 60 piece of equipment??

Does the character level cap, in and of itself, really make a difference what equipment becomes obsolete? If so, how?

No sarcasm, I'm asking an honest question.

[Kam]

Is there any practical difference between a Level 30 piece of equipment being made obsolete by a Level 40 piece of equipment, versus a Level 50 piece of equipment being made obsolete by a Level 60 piece of equipment??

Does the character level cap, in and of itself, really make a difference what equipment becomes obsolete? If so, how?

No sarcasm, I'm asking an honest question.

It all depends on the invested time acquiring the gear.

Can split hairs on this to no end...

Hell. I was upset when Skadi and AF2 legs became out done by AF3, purely on the time they took to acquire vs the better, newer gear.

Do I care about those 10k pants that were replaced by those 40k pants while leveling up though?

No. No I dont.

[Sol_Aureus]

Is there any practical difference between a Level 30 piece of equipment being made obsolete by a Level 40 piece of equipment, versus a Level 50 piece of equipment being made obsolete by a Level 60 piece of equipment??

Does the character level cap, in and of itself, really make a difference what equipment becomes obsolete? If so, how?

No sarcasm, I'm asking an honest question.

No, the numbers I were using were just for the sake of example, and technically no, the cap raise itself doesn't make gear obsolete.

However, by keeping the level cap the same, it allows more room for making complimentary pieces of gear. As it stands right now, certain base stats always increase with the level of the piece of gear. So a level 60 body of the same type will always have more defense then the level 50 body.

And even if they were to pull off making the new level 60 gear complimentary to the old level 50 gear by making the bonus stats worth it, eventually raising the level cap to 70, 80, etc, etc, the old gear WILL become obsolete because the pros of the new gear will outweigh the pros of the old gear. By keeping the level cap the same, they can eliminate that need to raise the base stats, and instead have the gear growth go horizontally.

[Brotech]

Related because this is how I feel about this.

I liked ffxi's cap,(CoP era, even ToAU a bit). I want that again.
Even FFXI isn't like FFXI anymore...

Most important Quote in the link:

"I don't think that anyone in his right mind truly feels that poor people (or any people) should be denied the ability to play games. What I am saying is that if you are too "time-poor" to play MMOs, the game isn't the part of the equation that needs to change."

[Physic]

Related because this is how I feel about this.

I liked ffxi's cap,(CoP era, even ToAU a bit). I want that again.
Even FFXI isn't like FFXI anymore...

Most important Quote in the link:

"I don't think that anyone in his right mind truly feels that poor people (or any people) should be denied the ability to play games. What I am saying is that if you are too "time-poor" to play MMOs, the game isn't the part of the equation that needs to change."

problem with this belief is, mmo just means massive multiplayer online, it doesnt have to be a time sink to do that, and their is a market to hit that doesnt want it to be. Im not saying hardcore time sink games should not exist, but its foolish to think that any game that involves intereacting with a large number of people online has to be time sink heavy.

You just need a game that fits your niche, maybe the problem is the niche isnt profitable enough, i dont know the numbers, but if there is a market, someone will eventually make the game, maybe it should be you.

[Brotech]

problem with this belief is, mmo just means massive multiplayer online, it doesnt have to be a time sink to do that, and their is a market to hit that doesnt want it to be. Im not saying hardcore time sink games should not exist, but its foolish to think that any game that involves intereacting with a large number of people online has to be time sink heavy.

You just need a game that fits your niche, maybe the problem is the niche isnt profitable enough, i dont know the numbers, but if there is a market, someone will eventually make the game, maybe it should be you.

If you had actually read the blog post, he actually touches on the difference between the types of mmos he is referring to.

It really is a shame the Vanguard failed.

Agreed. I had such high hopes for that game.

[_C-a-e-r-i-t-h_]

Related because this is how I feel about this.

I liked ffxi's cap,(CoP era, even ToAU a bit). I want that again.
Even FFXI isn't like FFXI anymore...

Most important Quote in the link:

"I don't think that anyone in his right mind truly feels that poor people (or any people) should be denied the ability to play games. What I am saying is that if you are too "time-poor" to play MMOs, the game isn't the part of the equation that needs to change."

Most important quote:

In my opinion, most old-school MMOers pine for the good old days for a much less nefarious reason: They liked having more options. Put another way, the gameplay was simply more diverse, and that has nothing to do with filtering anyone out. <. . .> MMOs are -- or used to be -- virtual worlds; <. . .> Unfortunately, complexity, commitment, and immersion are four-letter words to the new breed of MMO player, and as a result, developers are following the money towards simplicity and missing features (wherefore art thou housing, crafting, and really any sort of gameplay that doesn't revolve around heavily instanced homicide).

It really is a shame the Vanguard failed.

[Kiara]

Hi Sol,

Great topic and some good points made in this thread from a lot of people.

I agree that I don't want to see our best gear (that we spent a meaningful amount of time getting) get eradicated / outdated with every Rank Cap Increase, if it's happening at the pace Yoshida-san is thinking about (1 - 2 years).

Two key points being brought up in this thread are:

1. New Content / Keeing the Game Fresh
   
   
2. Don't Make Our Hardest Earned Gear Obsolete Too Fast

Regarding "New Content," I think we can have interesting, meaningful New Content that doesn't involve raising the Level Cap (some Level Increases are fine over the life of this game, but not too often). Here are some quick ideas for New Content without Raising Level Cap:

• Pace the Release of "Full Sets" of Gear: Perhaps the first set of New Content allows players to get ~2 pieces of very rare Armor for their Job. Pace the release of another big "New Content Patch" (months later) with 2 more pieces of that Set. And so on. Just with some Pacing, SE can still have goals and meaningful content without releasing too much at once, to keep the Players interested for longer than just a few weeks.
• Alternate Sets of Gear: Without a need to raise the Level Cap, you can also eventually release (and pace out) a 2nd set of Advanced Gear that could benefit your Job in a different way (e.g., a Max Healing Set vs. a Debuff Set vs. a Magic Damage Set, etc.; for DoW, High Accuracy vs. High Damage Set, etc.)
• Rare Crafter and Gatherer Sets: If FF XIV really considers Crafters and Gatherers as full Classes, there could be new content / challenges that would ultimately yield Rare Crafting or Gathering Armor Sets or Tools.
• Engaging, Meaningful Story: Despite some issues with Chains of Promathea, I felt their Cinematics and Story were outstanding and entertaining. It made me feel like I was playing a "Final Fantasy" RPG.
  
  New content doesn't have to be all about Gear, and I know some people hate Story (and skip all Cinematics and Dialogue), but some people *do* enjoy entertaining Stories and Cinematics in games. This is another bit of "New Content" that is worth doing without raising the Level Cap.
• New Regions of Eorzea Unlocked: This would be New Content that you have to earn to unlock access to. I remember the first time getting up to Sky and seeing how wonderful it was up there (like Laputa: Castle in the Sky!). Or getting to Sea for the first time. There's a feeling of satisfaction and happiness in gaining access to new Areas. The new Areas could have regions for ranking up at all level ranges as well (for you to use on New Classes and Jobs).
• New Weaponskills: There could be New Content where you have to conquer an area and prove your worth to a Master Guildsman of your Guild (Maat?! :P), and you can eventually unlock and earn a New Weaponskill.
• New Traits: Same for Traits. There's a lot of possibility of New Traits you can earn and unlock driven via New Content.
• Rare Stat Increases (Something Like Merits from XI): Instead of just grinding on anything, we could have New Dungeons / Areas that are filled with certain enemies you must defeat to eventually gain a "Blessing from your Deity or Archon" which grants you a rare Stat Increase of your choice (repeatable up to a limit).
• Super Hard Dungeon / Area. This is one thing I think games should take advantage of more: For everyone that reaches Max Cap, and gets Rare Gear... where's their "playground"? What do they use their fully buffed out character on (besides helping others get their rare gear (which is fine))? It would be nice to have a Super Hard Dungeon where you might be able to barely progress initially, but over the course of earning the Stat Increases and Rare Gear and New Weaponskills and Traits, and with more experience and developing proper Strategies, you could progress further and further until you could finally clear it.
  
  The reward? It could be whatever SE deems necessary. A great finish to a Side Storyline. One super rare item. A Title. Whatever it would be it would also be about the journey through it. Being able to have that sense of accomplishment of beating one of the hardest challenges in the game.

In regards to point #2, Obsolete Gear, I think some good points brought up would be:

• Alternate Complementary Sets of Gear: If a Level Cap Increase and/or New Content came with Alternate / Different Sets of Gear (one is High Accuracy, another is High Damage, or High Crit Rate, etc.), that would prevent your hard-earned 1st Rare Set from getting obsolete.
• Upgradeable Gear: Much like Relic Weapons, if a Level Cap / New Patch / Expansion allowed your rarest Gear to be Upgradeable, then you still keep your attachment to it, and it goes towards something even better (so your time wasn't wasted).

I think that if done right, Square could pace out the release of Gear Sets, provide Alternate, Useful Gear Sets and/or allow Upgrading of Gear (via being Materia-ized or just upgrading like Relics), and provide interesting, fresh content so that even if they did do it every "1 - 2 years", they could allow your rarest gear to "survive" through ~2 or 3 Big, New Content Patches / Expansions, meaning you could still have your rare gear (in one form or another) for a solid ~3 - 6 years without it being obsolete.

[Quoc]

That's not gonna happen with the current content and gameplay systems.

[SniperRifle]

Is there any practical difference between a Level 30 piece of equipment being made obsolete by a Level 40 piece of equipment, versus a Level 50 piece of equipment being made obsolete by a Level 60 piece of equipment??

Does the character level cap, in and of itself, really make a difference what equipment becomes obsolete? If so, how?

No sarcasm, I'm asking an honest question.

Yea I figured this had to be a serious question because no one who played FF11 would ask this. And I really wanted to answer this because at first I thought raising the cap every 1-2 years wouldn't be so bad. It does help keep the game fresh, but OP did hit theeeee strongest point when he says, old content will become obsolete. People still did sky 7 years after it came out, and it was still fun 7 years later. With WoW old content goes dry after the new expansion pack hits (annually)... It begs the question why not just take a year off the game then come back in 2 years for the next level cap raise since everything prior would be a waste of time. Why not skip 3-5 years? Why not skip right until they're about the scrap the game so you know you'll be seeing the final end game content and all your hard earned gear will actually be worth it?

I'm not WoW bashing, but I cleared Sunwell pre WOTLK, and a very very good chunk of my guild quit the game 2 months prior to WOTLK. Knowing we beat the game, and all our hard work would be replaced by greens in just a few months, we decided to just move on. Some of us came back in WOTLK I know I eventually did. And played for 2 months and knew that what I had pre WOTLK could never be relived. I'd have to fight my way into a top tier guild again. In 11, you could get a Relic and full AF2... Go run around the world for 6 years, come back, and that relic would be just as valuable as the day you left. (Figuratively speaking ofcourse).

I understand this game isn't 11, or WoW... But I'd hate for content, any content, to become obsolete. Sky, Limbus, Dynamis, all lasted 7+ years like the OP said. Even the HNMs were still killed regularly for 7 years. Every zone had it's purpose. Once WOTLK came out Outlands was like an empty wasteland. Sure my T6 gear took me from 70-80, but 80 heroics > the gear only 1% of the games population had 2 months prior.

I know Yoshida probably wants money... I would too :P So immitating WoW probably would benefit him more then having a 7 year gap w/ no cap raise. Regardless, I'll still be playing. It's nice to know he played EQ as well I hear lots of good things about EQ online.