Rank cap increase every 1-2 years discussion thread

[AuctionGirl]

Kiara,

While you bring up some good points, you seem to forget about the most important part of this game. If you release new content too slow, people will leave. You can only repeat the same content so many times before it gets old. There should always be a challenge in the game of getting the best armor/weapons. You should not be able to keep the same stuff for more than 6 months. People probably disagree with this, but if you keep your armor forever, you have less goals to shoot for on each and every content patch they release. If you are progressing slower or stopped ranks, how do you keep adding in better equipment that soon destroys Capped rank+ challenges, makes your capped rank hard mobs before now are easy. So you are neglecting the past content also in these armor/weapon additions. You also destroy the crafters growth, as they have nothing new to strive for. You keep battle entertained, but there are players whom enjoy crafting and playing the market, you will soon make that stale. You also ruin the economy with an even larger flood of armor/weapons destroying new crafters ability to join the market (and be profitable) and grow. Vertical Progression at a fixed rate of time would keep everyone with something to do.

There really is no choice in horizontal progression vs vertical, the answer is vertical progression.

If you choose Horizontal Progression, you are putting a nail in your coffin.

[Quoc]

That's not gonna happen with the current content and gameplay systems.

[Rentahamster]

Kiara,

While you bring up some good points, you seem to forget about the most important part of this game. If you release new content too slow, people will leave. You can only repeat the same content so many times before it gets old.

One one the main reasons why the shelf life of content should be kept as fresh as long as possible.

[Kiara]

Hi AuctionGirl,

Huh? Did you even read my post?

When did I say I want to "repeat the same content"?

You are clearly excited about always getting New Gear - "getting the best armor/weapons" - and if you enjoy getting "the best" every 6 months, that's your opinion, but I strongly disagree with that pace.

The numerous examples I provided would be something SE could pace and release every 3 months if they wanted to. Fast enough for you?

I just believe there is New Content that caters to different segments of the gaming populace that can be done without making the best gear obsolete.

And as I said in my first post, I'm in favor of Level Cap Increases; it's just how it's handled, and I provided ideas for interesting New Content that *doesn't* require Level Cap Increases (or it can be tied to the increase as well).

[AuctionGirl]

One one the main reasons why the shelf life of content should be kept as fresh as long as possible.

You can keep the older content fresh by adjusting it every patch, changing drops, having cap limits on the dungeons etc...

You kill crafters, gatherers and others if you keep a fixed rank.
There is no choice, cap raises must happen with new content.

[_C-a-e-r-i-t-h_]

There really is no choice in horizontal progression vs vertical, the answer is vertical progression.

If it was that simple, there wouldn't be over a hundred posts debating it.

The real issue is lack of content. MMORPGs were originally a world first, a grind second. Modern MMOs don't have a lot of features, or anything to do except grind.

If all there is to do in a game is level up, then yes, obviously vertical progression is the only way to go.

If the game is designed with some sense of grandness and imagination, then horizontal progression is perfectly viable.

Considering how sparse FFXIV is, they should just make the level cap 1000 and be set for life.

[Chezen]

Kiara,

While you bring up some good points, you seem to forget about the most important part of this game. If you release new content too slow, people will leave. You can only repeat the same content so many times before it gets old. There should always be a challenge in the game of getting the best armor/weapons. You should not be able to keep the same stuff for more than 6 months. People probably disagree with this, but if you keep your armor forever, you have less goals to shoot for on each and every content patch they release. If you are progressing slower or stopped ranks, how do you keep adding in better equipment that soon destroys Capped rank+ challenges, makes your capped rank hard mobs before now are easy. So you are neglecting the past content also in these armor/weapon additions. You also destroy the crafters growth, as they have nothing new to strive for. You keep battle entertained, but there are players whom enjoy crafting and playing the market, you will soon make that stale. You also ruin the economy with an even larger flood of armor/weapons destroying new crafters ability to join the market (and be profitable) and grow. Vertical Progression at a fixed rate of time would keep everyone with something to do.

There really is no choice in horizontal progression vs vertical, the answer is vertical progression.

If you choose Horizontal Progression, you are putting a nail in your coffin.

That is if your primary reason to play is gear, which really is why for people such as yourself, and a very valid point. But it isn't and doesn't have to be everyone's reason.

I would like to have that point that I am the best I can be, and I take that best and fight various monsters, or have various scenarios for it. Why? Awesome cutscenes. Adventure. Self-pride in defeating diferent types of difficult bosses. Whatever other reasons the devs can think up.

I'm not saying this will work for everybody, or that there should be no level expansions or new gear. I just want to see more innovation than the typical gear chase. I want to see endgame have more content than the typical dungeon. I like dungeons to a point, but not that much. I prefer exploring, quest-type stuff, puzzles, and especially story. Story is what drives me the most in FF games.

[AuctionGirl]

Hi AuctionGirl,

Huh? Did you even read my post?

When did I say I want to "repeat the same content"?

You are clearly excited about always getting New Gear - "getting the best armor/weapons" - and if you enjoy getting "the best" every 6 months, that's your opinion, but I strongly disagree with that pace.

The numerous examples I provided would be something SE could pace and release every 3 months if they wanted to. Fast enough for you?

I just believe there is New Content that caters to different segments of the gaming populace that can be done without making the best gear obsolete.

And as I said in my first post, I'm in favor of Level Cap Increases; it's just how it's handled, and I provided ideas for interesting New Content that *doesn't* require Level Cap Increases (or it can be tied to the increase as well).

Kiara I am happy you are in favor of rank increases, they are a must though, and have to happen as fast or faster than new content lasts in the game. New Recipes, New Content, New Armors/Weapons, New everything every so often, just makes something better. Same Recipes, New Content, Old Armors/Weapons, only fulfills 1/3 of what can and should be done often. If you keep people thinking about finding new recipes, new armors/weapons and more... you have increased the amount of content in the game 10x more than just adding a couple new armors/weapons and maybe a couple dungeons.

Horizontal Progression
- New Items/Weapons/Armors
--- Negatives: Possibly Weapons/Armors you don't need/want
- Old Recipes/Crafting Skills
--- Negatives: Same boring stuff, capped and bored, floods markets, ruins economy
- Old Gathering Locations/Items
--- Negatives: Same boring gathering, nothing new, why gather anymore?
- New Dungeons/Mobs/Challenges
--- Negatives: Could be fun, and could be a complete waste of time, with no drops that you need/want
- New Maps/Areas
--- Negatives: Even though its a new map, you cant use repeatable mobs anymore without them feeling like the existing mobs. You negate the ability to re-use mobs and increase ranks/give new skills to.
- Old Skills
--- Negatives: You occasionally might get new skills, but you are limited in what you really can add since fixed rank

Vertical Progression
- New Items/Weapons/Armors
--- Positives: The new Weapons and armor will be better than the existing, and there will be something to achieve
- New Recipes/Crafting Skills
--- Positives: New Stuff for crafters to do, New Items in the market place and New Skills to achieve
- New Gathering Locations/Items
--- Positives: Keeps gatherers in business, keeps crafters supplied, gives new skills to achieve
- New Dungeons/Mobs/Challenges
--- Positives: Gives players something to strive for, those few new ranks that allow them into the new content and can introduce new and harder challenges
- New Maps/Areas
--- Positives: You can simply do more things with more maps/areas, more quests easier, new cool challenges can be made on those new maps and they don't feel like of its another Rank 80-90 mobs area...
- New Skills
--- Positives: Developers can get more creative and they can simply make new ones more powerful giving more things to strive for

Really no choice, if you want the game to last a long time, it has to grow in every aspect, not just horizontal, but vertically also.

[Sol_Aureus]

Kiara I am happy you are in favor of rank increases, they are a must though, and have to happen as fast or faster than new content lasts in the game. New Recipes, New Content, New Armors/Weapons, New everything every so often, just makes something better. Same Recipes, New Content, Old Armors/Weapons, only fulfills 1/3 of what can and should be done often. If you keep people thinking about finding new recipes, new armors/weapons and more... you have increased the amount of content in the game 10x more than just adding a couple new armors/weapons and maybe a couple dungeons.

Horizontal Progression
- New Items/Weapons/Armors
--- Negatives: Possibly Weapons/Armors you don't need/want
- Old Recipes/Crafting Skills
--- Negatives: Same boring stuff, capped and bored, floods markets, ruins economy
- Old Gathering Locations/Items
--- Negatives: Same boring gathering, nothing new, why gather anymore?
- New Dungeons/Mobs/Challenges
--- Negatives: Could be fun, and could be a complete waste of time, with no drops that you need/want
- New Maps/Areas
--- Negatives: Even though its a new map, you cant use repeatable mobs anymore without them feeling like the existing mobs. You negate the ability to re-use mobs and increase ranks/give new skills to.
- Old Skills
--- Negatives: You occasionally might get new skills, but you are limited in what you really can add since fixed rank

Vertical Progression
- New Items/Weapons/Armors
--- Positives: The new Weapons and armor will be better than the existing, and there will be something to achieve
- New Recipes/Crafting Skills
--- Positives: New Stuff for crafters to do, New Items in the market place and New Skills to achieve
- New Gathering Locations/Items
--- Positives: Keeps gatherers in business, keeps crafters supplied, gives new skills to achieve
- New Dungeons/Mobs/Challenges
--- Positives: Gives players something to strive for, those few new ranks that allow them into the new content and can introduce new and harder challenges
- New Maps/Areas
--- Positives: You can simply do more things with more maps/areas, more quests easier, new cool challenges can be made on those new maps and they don't feel like of its another Rank 80-90 mobs area...
- New Skills
--- Positives: Developers can get more creative and they can simply make new ones more powerful giving more things to strive for

Really no choice, if you want the game to last a long time, it has to grow in every aspect, not just horizontal, but vertically also.

While you make some valid points, saying that vertical progression is nessesary for an MMO to be fun and successful without preceding or following that statement with "in my opinion" seems like you're trying to pass it off as a fact, which is very closed-minded. FFXI proves that vertical progression is NOT necessary to make an MMO fun and successful, otherwise it wouldn't have survived during the 7 years that I played and the cap stayed 75.

[Physic]

While you make some valid points, saying that vertical progression is nessesary for an MMO to be fun and successful without preceding or following that statement with "in my opinion" seems like you're trying to pass it off as a fact, which is very closed-minded. FFXI proves that vertical progression is NOT necessary to make an MMO fun and successful, otherwise it wouldn't have survived during the 7 years that I played and the cap stayed 75.

im honestly guessing if you played ffxi for a long time, you probably started to relevel many classes. Its natural that leveling a new class is generally more fun than endgame, because endgame progression is fairly limited. its only something you can usually do once in awhile and it doesnt need you to play the class you enjoy. Wow you had no choice but to do the endgame as the class that wanted the item. (i think based on what i heard) but here its a little different.
Many high level classes became farmer only, or completely retired.