Rank cap increase every 1-2 years discussion thread

[Physic]

But getting gear IS character progression. I guess since XI had gear swaps, I almost always wanted something from some endgame event because it was the best for that slot for a specific task. I had an MP set, a summoning magic skill set, a blood pact timer - set, pet atk/acc set, perpetuation - set... And even without gear swaps, in XIV I'm going to want a few sets for specific situations. If the level cap stays constant for a long time, it allows players more options for things to do at endgame, and a lot more options for gear.

Like I've said, as long as previous gear/events aren't rendered obsolete by level caps, i'm prefectly fine with them.

getting gear usually doesnt require you to play any one class, and only lasts for a small time each period. FFXI was full of people who loved a certain job, but never got to play it, or very rarely.
you want to get the best knuckles in the game? well come to dynamis as a blm or a rdm.
want that hax lance for your dragoon, well best way is to bio 3 that mob on rdm and run around the rock for an hour.

for equipment improving to be a good form of progression, it needs to require you to play the class you enjoy to get or improve said equipment. and honestly even equipment will get old, Im going to want new skills eventually.

[kukurumei]

getting gear usually doesnt require you to play any one class, and only lasts for a small time each period. FFXI was full of people who loved a certain job, but never got to play it, or very rarely.
you want to get the best knuckles in the game? well come to dynamis as a blm or a rdm.
want that hax lance for your dragoon, well best way is to bio 3 that mob on rdm and run around the rock for an hour.

for equipment improving to be a good form of progression, it needs to require you to play the class you enjoy to get or improve said equipment. and honestly even equipment will get old, Im going to want new skills eventually.

That's more of a community problem then a mechanics problem as sadly human nature is the only truly possible way to draw that line between helping a friend in need, and pure collective greed. FF11 was overly community sensitive, but it's almost a strength at times then a hinderance.

And considering trying the opposite, only made it much worse then FF11 ever could, like WoW. WoW you didn't just have to be a job, you had to be a l33t job, with hundreds of competition, for a just as low random drop rate. And that's all you ever did.

Don't think it's fixable in any way. The best alternative so far is FtP MMOs where everyone is so into jaded, it becomes too sensitive of a topic for anyone to argue about.

After all this is not a Single Player game. It is at its core competitive.

I just looked to the left at a newly implemented forum feature is all....

Anywho, I don't believe thinking FFXIV can become great is any kind of illusion. If you're so sure it is going to fail and never produce for the players, just don't bother with it and spend your time with currently successful MMO's. Its like you're working for a rival company hoping the game fails or something.

Completely unrealistic daydreaming, but whatever. I can sprout serval dozen proverbs but it's pretty obvious at this point, FF14 is not going to be the blockbuster they wanted it to be. We can all sing the miracle patch song.

And I assume you mean my character link....wow...just wow...ever consider...why besides massive conspiracy theory?

[Sorel]

Whether or not they'll be able to raise the cap regularly completely depends on how they rebalance the Classes and implement the new Jobs.

The primary reason that the cap was not raised in FFXI was due to the unforeseen consequences of the Subjob System combined with bottom-loading the abilities of the Advanced Jobs ... particularly RDM. FFXI, at the time, simply couldn't produce content that would be able to withstand a DRK, PLD, BLM, WHM, or SMN with Refresh and Convert. Spellcasters would have dominated the game forever, and non-spellcasters would have become LOL.

I don't foresee that happening with the Armory System, but one never knows.

[AuctionGirl]

If they increase every 5 ranks, always something new to do, but its really how they implement the new content, and modify the existing content every time there is a cap increase. 6 months is a good time period, this keeps new content always coming in, and making sure the existing content takes at least 6 months to complete would make the game even better. A Player should never CAP everything out, there should always be something to strive for. Character progression is the reason most players play MMO's. Keep those new things coming, and players wont get bored.

- Forced Rank Caps for Existing Dungeons is important - Example: R30 Dungeons level synced to Rank 30 if you enter them
- New Dungeons (minimum 2-3) with new and exciting content and strategies
- Existing Dungeons drops/mobs modified/changed to keep old players wanting to re-do these dungeons every expansion.
- Make existing GOOD drops upgradable, enforcing that players will go back to those dungeons to get those drops to upgrade their weapons/armor. Make both the old and new dungeons play a part in that upgrade, and even possibly make some of those materials to upgrade "unique" so DOH cant just craft 100 of them at a time, and make them a fairly hard drop to get at the same time. This keeps existing weapons/armor still required, and doesn't just kill them off.
- Make new maps/areas to explore and new mobs to grind on to get those new skills and hone your new abilities before you go into those new dungeons
- Make earlier ranks easier to obtain to help catch up to the main group on new characters - Example: Add/Increase the bonuses for higher ranks, rank 1-24 now gets a leveling bonus to help get to the content to do, increase that 5 ranks every expansion, so 1-29 would have a bonus once we goto 55, then 1-34 once we goto 60. This helps new players/accounts/jobs get to higher ranked content.

Horizontal Progression = Short Term Game Killer
Vertical Progression done smart = Lifelong Ever Expanding Game (Do not stop at 100, keep going, keep creating, keep challenging)

[Val_Rhys]

In FFXIV, I would like a system with one, or perhaps a few, quick level cap increases but where a stable level cap is eventually reached. I thought the FFXI system bringing the level cap from 50 to 75 was done well. I think players were aware those changes were happening relatively quickly and none of the gear before then was overly time consuming to acquire.

The issue with level cap increases, as the OP pointed out, isn't with the actual level of the players, it's with the associated impact on gear acquired over the years. I prefer new/better gear added to MMOs over a relatively long time. Gear that is more easily attained when your character (and linkshell's players) are outfitted with up-to-date gear. That way, your previous gear doesn't feel useless but at the same time providing new challenges and goals to strive for. I think FFXI could have done a better job of introducing gear that replaced or upgraded enduring elite pieces. Relics, ridills, adaberks, etc. were far too good for far too long and any sense of new achievement was lost once those were attained because incoming gear was largely inferior or, at best, a lateral move (usually inferior).

On the other extreme is the mindset of an MMO like WoW. It's not that the level cap increases come too fast but that the new gear absolutely smashes previous sets. The most common rank 71-79 gear introduced after a level cap increase was better than the most elite rank 70 gear players spent a year or more getting before that same level cap increase. That is insanely frustrating. Essentially, you end up skipping over mountains of content all for the newly introduced expansion. And that the newest of players were right on par with the most seasoned veterans after an expansion because they all quickly grabbed the better, common gear and then worked towards the elite pieces. Maybe that's what designers and developers are striving for, but it's not to my taste.

So while both system have their ups and downs, I would like to see a system closer resembling FFXI's system (but improving upon the introduction of new gear that actually outperforms old gear). That is, a relatively long and stable rise to a set level cap, where gear introduced is a modest improvement on already-existing elite pieces. And that the new content is tackled more efficiently with characters that have mastered previous content (and are appropriately geared because of that).

[Enthy]

I hope they put level caps on content and make the gear we get from old content either up-gradable or allow us to turn it into rare materia we can use on gear from new content.

They could also bring back gear swap but a lot of people on the forums have shown they don't want gear swap.

[Zenaku]

Seeing how Patch 20.0 would be releasing the jobs and they said Bard but did not say the other two missing job for the class i would say. Patch: 20.0 would be releasing when this game become 1year so that could mean releasing 1-2 new class/jobs and rise in the level cap to 55 or 60 maybe even releasing of Dark knight.

[AuctionGirl]

Kiara,

While you bring up some good points, you seem to forget about the most important part of this game. If you release new content too slow, people will leave. You can only repeat the same content so many times before it gets old. There should always be a challenge in the game of getting the best armor/weapons. You should not be able to keep the same stuff for more than 6 months. People probably disagree with this, but if you keep your armor forever, you have less goals to shoot for on each and every content patch they release. If you are progressing slower or stopped ranks, how do you keep adding in better equipment that soon destroys Capped rank+ challenges, makes your capped rank hard mobs before now are easy. So you are neglecting the past content also in these armor/weapon additions. You also destroy the crafters growth, as they have nothing new to strive for. You keep battle entertained, but there are players whom enjoy crafting and playing the market, you will soon make that stale. You also ruin the economy with an even larger flood of armor/weapons destroying new crafters ability to join the market (and be profitable) and grow. Vertical Progression at a fixed rate of time would keep everyone with something to do.

There really is no choice in horizontal progression vs vertical, the answer is vertical progression.

If you choose Horizontal Progression, you are putting a nail in your coffin.

[Rentahamster]

Kiara,

While you bring up some good points, you seem to forget about the most important part of this game. If you release new content too slow, people will leave. You can only repeat the same content so many times before it gets old.

One one the main reasons why the shelf life of content should be kept as fresh as long as possible.

[AuctionGirl]

One one the main reasons why the shelf life of content should be kept as fresh as long as possible.

You can keep the older content fresh by adjusting it every patch, changing drops, having cap limits on the dungeons etc...

You kill crafters, gatherers and others if you keep a fixed rank.
There is no choice, cap raises must happen with new content.