Rank cap increase every 1-2 years discussion thread

[Sol_Aureus]

First off, I'm aware that Yoshida has said that this is only in the concept stage at the moment, and is quite a long ways off, however, I believe it's an important enough topic to discuss now, before they start working on content with this in mind.

Here's the quote where I got this information:

(Quote from http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...563#post205563 )

Hi all, this is producer/director Yoshida.

First off, I’d just like to say that I am not by any means saying that characters shouldn’t have to level, or that we should get rid of leveling up itself, or that leveling is boring. If there was anyone that took it this way, I apologize. I myself am a huge role playing gamer, I love MMOs, and I’ve even worked on a recent Dragon Quest title, so I understand the pleasure and fun aspects of character growth. With that said, this does not mean that we are getting rid of it.

Of course, when you consider the unique characteristics of MMOs, planning to reach the level cap within a week isn’t entirely accurate. The ideal image is one where if you play every day for 2 hours or so, you will be able to reach the max cap on one class in about 3-4 months. Naturally, if you make detours or spend a whole day just chatting with friends, the distance and time to reach the cap will increase. One of the important things we would like players to think is “if I keep playing, I too can reach the highest rank.”

I was a hardcore EverQuest player and I know of the struggles involved in getting to that point. Truth be told, I really loved it. However, dying and losing 2 weeks’ worth of EXP, going insane trying to make EXP parties... I don’t think those features are important in the future of FFXIV.

While this is only concept phase right now, we are planning to increase the rank cap for growth once every 1-2 years, and will be implementing elements such as additional classes and jobs in the future.

However, I think what you’re all really concerned about is whether or not the end-game content and reasons for growing your character are going to be worthwhile or not. All I can say to that is that I will give it my utmost best!

Additionally, in the midst of the current battle adjustments, I think that rapidly inserting content (specifically battle-related content), when taking into account the overall situation, can be considered a pretty rash decision under normal circumstances. Since the foundation of game design is usually to first focus on finalizing the battle system, and then to implement content that utilizes the finished system, we are running a lot of risks launching the instanced raids and the Ifrit battle at this time. ^^;

I want to state just how much we appreciate all of you that are playing in these conditions, and let you know that we’ll continue with our best effort to implement content alongside the battle and foundational-related fixes.

First off, I'd like to say that the following is my OPINION. I'm not trying to state anything as fact. Please don't think that I am. I also reference FFXI a lot because it's a game that I played for 7 years and I greatly enjoyed, and I don't think that it's unreasonable to use my past experiences with an MMO I greatly enjoyed to formulate my opinion on the MMO I currently play :P.

Personally, I am very strongly against this. One of the main reasons I liked FFXI over other MMOs was the fact that the level cap stayed at 75 for a very long time (the entire 7 years I played) and gear that was released was designed to be complimentary to gear that was already out, so people would still want to do very old endgame events like Dynamis because they still wanted the gear from it.

I really dislike MMOs that constantly raise the level cap, simply because it makes it seem like all the effort that we put into getting our previous gear is worthless, because the new Level 60 body is WAY better then the level 50 body that I spent 6 months trying to get. I'm not saying that the new, higher level gear always comparable to the old gear; In my opinion, a level 60 body SHOULD be better then a level 50 body. However, constantly making gear that was coveted become essentially useless, and thinking that a level cap raise is necessary for the growth of an MMO is not something that I agree with.

FFXI demonstrated to me that you can keep the level cap the same and just build content that's complimentary to the old content, instead of essentially killing off the old content, since no one wants the gear from it any more, because all the gear from the new content is so many times better.

If the level cap is raised every 1-2 years, I think that the old content will become completely unused, and players will probably be able to go through the new content in the 1-2 years before the next level cap raise. This will cause the players to end up just waiting for the next content patch without much to do.

Quite a few years down the line, I'd like to see FFXIV endgame having so much content to choose from that we couldn't possibly do it all! (when I stopped playing FFXI we had: Dynamis, Sky, Sea, Limbus, HNM, ZNM, Assault, Nyzul Isle, Salvage, and Einherjar, those are all I can remember at the moment. But This content was so substantial that even with a LOT of free time I couldn't fit it all in my schedule!)

EDIT:
A few people have brought up the prospect of upgradable gear, having the player's current gear become upgradable to the new level cap via crafting, which I think is an outstanding Idea. The downside being that the old content itself will be laughably easy to go through (since it's tailored to lower levels) so there wouldn't be a challenge getting the new gear. However if the developers do decide to go with a level cap raise, I sincerely hope that they consider this option.


In any case, those are my thoughts on the matter. If you have your own thoughts on the matter, please post so we can get this discussion going!

[VeranRamaden]

i'd be okay with a FFXIish approach myself. But i'd say, I'd want a lvl 75 cap implemented within the next year.
Just because there is SO many 50's because there is nothing to do except level.
After that, i'd honestly be cool with a few years (maybe not 7) before going any higher.
As long as they add new jobs and classes of course.

[Jennestia]

Heh someone said it's quicker than FFXI's...nope, only 75 - 80+ was a long downtime, it went from 50-75 very quickly.

[Sorel]

Is there any practical difference between a Level 30 piece of equipment being made obsolete by a Level 40 piece of equipment, versus a Level 50 piece of equipment being made obsolete by a Level 60 piece of equipment??

Does the character level cap, in and of itself, really make a difference what equipment becomes obsolete? If so, how?

No sarcasm, I'm asking an honest question.

[Kam]

Well, as long as stuff is there to do, its accesable, fun, challenging and ultimatly rewarding, I dont have an issue with a 1-2 yearly rise in cap.

Though the skeptic in me says they wont stick to this. I'd put it at every 3years. Reaching lvl100 a bit faster than XI did.

[Wolfie]

Counter argument:

One of two things will happen if the level cap stays fixed. We'll either see new gear come out as upgrades or we'll see new gear come out as side grades.

Gear that comes out as upgrades has almost the same effect as increasing the level cap, in that old gear becomes obsolete. However, it's not usually as bad as a level cap increase.

Gear that comes out as sidegrades becomes boring fast, runs the risk of becoming obsolete on release, or being subpar. FFXI's Sea, COP dynamis, and Hydra HNM didn't see much action because the effort was too great and the gear they offered sucked.

[TonyMontana]

I would be cool with rasing the level cap on Sept 22nd 2012. 2 year mark for the win.

[Kam]

Is there any practical difference between a Level 30 piece of equipment being made obsolete by a Level 40 piece of equipment, versus a Level 50 piece of equipment being made obsolete by a Level 60 piece of equipment??

Does the character level cap, in and of itself, really make a difference what equipment becomes obsolete? If so, how?

No sarcasm, I'm asking an honest question.

It all depends on the invested time acquiring the gear.

Can split hairs on this to no end...

Hell. I was upset when Skadi and AF2 legs became out done by AF3, purely on the time they took to acquire vs the better, newer gear.

Do I care about those 10k pants that were replaced by those 40k pants while leveling up though?

No. No I dont.

[Ceons]

Maybe increase cap as see fit but not till like at least every 3 years. Got to give people the chance to fully experience everything. Besides there are so many classes and jobs to level that its not like you will get bored of leveling.

Content would be what we want every... well as soon and often as possible. There is plenty to level, plenty more to level coming and then some. Maybe even limit points type of system to level some more... without going past cap too often.

I liked the fact that FFXI managed to stay such a great game and add several expansions, missions and content that it really was not necessary for people to want to level one class/job beyond the cap. You could always level another job! Leveling never ended... But a little stability level cap wise was comforting.

[Sol_Aureus]

Is there any practical difference between a Level 30 piece of equipment being made obsolete by a Level 40 piece of equipment, versus a Level 50 piece of equipment being made obsolete by a Level 60 piece of equipment??

Does the character level cap, in and of itself, really make a difference what equipment becomes obsolete? If so, how?

No sarcasm, I'm asking an honest question.

No, the numbers I were using were just for the sake of example, and technically no, the cap raise itself doesn't make gear obsolete.

However, by keeping the level cap the same, it allows more room for making complimentary pieces of gear. As it stands right now, certain base stats always increase with the level of the piece of gear. So a level 60 body of the same type will always have more defense then the level 50 body.

And even if they were to pull off making the new level 60 gear complimentary to the old level 50 gear by making the bonus stats worth it, eventually raising the level cap to 70, 80, etc, etc, the old gear WILL become obsolete because the pros of the new gear will outweigh the pros of the old gear. By keeping the level cap the same, they can eliminate that need to raise the base stats, and instead have the gear growth go horizontally.