Death Penalty

[Kailok]

Just giving my two cents: Death Penalties SHOULD be a part of this game. Regardless of what you say, subconsciously in your head you will think "Crap, if I die, I'll lose this, and some of that" (depending on the game's penalty upon death). In FFXI, you didn't want to die because you'd lose 10-15% of your TNL (don't remember which exactly, think it was 10%). As much of a pain that was, I liked it because it gave me incentive not to die on TOP of wanting to accomplish my mission.

[Sav]

Ummm, the OP refers to death being a penalty in and of itself...but how is that the case when you can respawn? At most, the death itself is a minor inconvenience. In my opinion, there must be penalties involved, otherwise strategy goes out the window.

[Kailok]

Ummm, the OP refers to death being a penalty in and of itself...but how is that the case when you can respawn? At most, the death itself is a minor inconvenience. In my opinion, there must be penalties involved, otherwise strategy goes out the window.

Exactly. /10char

[geniusprime]

Ummm, the OP refers to death being a penalty in and of itself...but how is that the case when you can respawn? At most, the death itself is a minor inconvenience. In my opinion, there must be penalties involved, otherwise strategy goes out the window.

Because when you die you respawn at the last location. That is not a reward but a penalty because of dying. Strategy does not exist because of death penalty. By the logic you are using there is no strategy in RTS, which obviously wouldn't make sense. There are many games in which the sensation of danger and the need for strategy is very effective and none of these games have such a concept as death penalty. Why is it that the concept must exist in games like these to achieve the same results? There are alternative ways of achieving the desired results without using the current archaic methods.

[Viridiana]

Because when you die you respawn at the last location. That is not a reward but a penalty because of dying. Strategy does not exist because of death penalty. By the logic you are using there is no strategy in RTS, which obviously wouldn't make sense. There are many games in which the sensation of danger and the need for strategy is very effective and none of these games have such a concept as death penalty. Why is it that the concept must exist in games like these to achieve the same results? There are alternative ways of achieving the desired results without using the current archaic methods.

And that, I believe, is where you're fundamentally wrong. SE is actually about to remove the already-low 1 Anima cost for Returning to your last crystal exactly because so many people were suicide-porting. So, yes, that is actually a reward, or, at the very least, not a penalty.

[darkstarpoet1]

And that, I believe, is where you're fundamentally wrong. SE is actually about to remove the already-low 1 Anima cost for Returning to your last crystal exactly because so many people were suicide-porting. So, yes, that is actually a reward, or, at the very least, not a penalty.

ummm if you suicide ported you had ZERO anima cost.

[Viridiana]

ummm if you suicide ported you had ZERO anima cost.

That was my point, actually. >_>

They're removing the 1 Anima cost on normal Return because so many people were suicide-returning for free.

[geniusprime]

And that, I believe, is where you're fundamentally wrong. SE is actually about to remove the already-low 1 Anima cost for Returning to your last crystal exactly because so many people were suicide-porting. So, yes, that is actually a reward, or, at the very least, not a penalty.

It is a penalty if it is NOT my intentions to die. Folks using death in this manner is clearly showing that traveling is flawed.

[Viridiana]

It is a penalty if it is NOT my intentions to die. Folks using death in this manner is clearly showing that traveling is flawed.

No, the fact that people can, and regularly do, suicide-port is evidence that there isn't enough of a punishment to actually dissuade dying.

[Preypacer]

It is a penalty if it is NOT my intentions to die. Folks using death in this manner is clearly showing that traveling is flawed.

Impressive. You manage to spin the situation *and* dodge the actual argument all in one statement.

Nonetheless, that's all you're doing, and that dog won't hunt.

It's not just a FFXIV thing, it's a MMO's in general thing.

Death is used for convenient travel in myriad other MMOs... all of them being of the "casual friendly" nature that SE is attempting with XIV. It's used as such because death has zero sting, zero meaningful consequence.

There's no reason to serious try to avoid dying because dying is absolutely meaningless.

And again, no matter how many times some folks might repeat the mantra that "dying is enough punishment itself to try to avoid it", it doesn't pan out in practice. All you need to do is spend some time in a casual-friendly MMO with a lax death penalty and witness how people actually play it. Go up to people in FFXIV zombie-zerging their way to victory in a guildleve, or people "graveyard hopping" their way across the map in other similarly "casual" MMOs and ask them how much of an incentive the "failure of dying itself" is for them to try avoiding it. It's an oft repeated meme that is not supported by reality.

If the death penalty is so inconsequential that players find it to be a convenient mode of transportation - even when flight paths, teleports, warp scrolls and other various modes of travel are available, convenient and plentiful - there's a problem with the penalty for dying.. not with the travel system.