Bonus stats are pointless

[L-D-Omlette]

So my question now, given how simplistic this system is why is the bonus stat points even allowed in the game? It only allows for people to risk wasting them in stats that serve little to absolutely no purpose, or even more importantly for classes like ACN that have 2 jobs, it forces the player to pick only 1 build (play SCH better or play SMN better), or to split their points in half and only play each at less than their full potential. This is a concern for those that like to play both SMN and SCH, and for all future classes that will get 2 jobs.

You answered your own question...

The idea is that when you advance a class to a job you either specialize in one or the other, or try to balance the two. At present ACN is the only class with two jobs, but when more jobs are added to each class this will become more apparent. This is your decision tree.

[Kitru]

The idea is that when you advance a class to a job you either specialize in one or the other, or try to balance the two. At present ACN is the only class with two jobs, but when more jobs are added to each class this will become more apparent. This is your decision tree.

Considering the armory system, there is some question as to whether having to "choose" between SMN and SCH is entirely appropriate. Given that you can swap between the other jobs without any issue beyond gear differences (which are present between SMN and SCH), having the two jobs be isolated is somewhat awkward. Unless there is some wonky programmatic issue with the bonus stats, I don't really see a reason for forcing SCH and SMN to use the same bonus stats since the devs have shown an inclination towards encouraging people to run multiple jobs and swap between them freely.

Personally, I'm not even sure why the devs even included the bonus stats. They're basically preassigned based upon your chosen class/job so it's not like you really have much of a choice (the only variation I see is for tanks where there's some degree of split between STR and VIT on occasion). I have a feeling it's just some kind of token system provided for those people that want to feel like they have an appreciable impact upon their ability scores directly. I'd honestly be happier if they just folded the bonus stats into the normal leveling increases since it would be the same, for all intents and purposes.

[L-D-Omlette]

Considering the armory system, there is some question as to whether having to "choose" between SMN and SCH is entirely appropriate. Given that you can swap between the other jobs without any issue beyond gear differences (which are present between SMN and SCH), having the two jobs be isolated is somewhat awkward. Unless there is some wonky programmatic issue with the bonus stats, I don't really see a reason for forcing SCH and SMN to use the same bonus stats since the devs have shown an inclination towards encouraging people to run multiple jobs and swap between them freely.

SMN and SCH are the only place where this "dilemma" applies, so comparing the swap-ability to other jobs at this point seems premature.

If the second job they release for LNC is a tank role (I know parry mechanics for tanks are crap, but work with me here, talking super hyperbole) would it then seem so inappropriate to have to choose on ACN, when you would need to do the same on LNC? How about when that gets expanded to all classes? Assuming ACN is any indicator, roles will differ for the two jobs on each class. Of course everything we have to go on is based on a single example, thus everything is conjecture at best. It will be interesting to see what and how they implement things.

Personally, I'm not even sure why the devs even included the bonus stats. They're basically preassigned based upon your chosen class/job so it's not like you really have much of a choice (the only variation I see is for tanks where there's some degree of split between STR and VIT on occasion). I have a feeling it's just some kind of token system provided for those people that want to feel like they have an appreciable impact upon their ability scores directly. I'd honestly be happier if they just folded the bonus stats into the normal leveling increases since it would be the same, for all intents and purposes.

I agree in that it seems pointless at present, because we only have one situation where it occurs, and don't disagree that it is more of an illusion of choice at the moment. Out of curiosity, if you'd be happier with them rolling it into the normal leveling stats, which job would you like to see stripped of the points, SCH or SMN?

[Mimilu]

Wow someone actually dumped this in here before I could put that if they did Hiroradius' idea, then people would just complain about not being able to do everything on one character.

And that's a bad thing?
This would effect you, who has all battle classes at level 50, the most, considering it would nerf all but one of them at a given time (your main).

[Mimilu]

This will also cause more tanks whether people believe it or not. The reason, if you rolled a Gladiator/Paladin got to level 50, then decided you were bored and wanted to play Archer/Bard, you could now be at level 50, people need a tank to run CT, and you decide you are a Bard tonight and run as that instead.

This example makes no sense...
Are you say that your level would stick through out all the classes then?
And where does parties needing Tanks for CT come in to you being a Bard?
Your system would discourage people from switching, even with Keeper's Hymn, because they wouldn't have the class/job they need readily available and they would have to waste seals rapidly.
Not to mention, this would be a huge boon to DPS classes/jobs simply out of the sheer number of players who main DPS. They already have a hard time finding parties in-and-out of the DF simply because there's so many of them versus the number of available tanks or even healers.
This game just wasn't designed for people to just stick with a main class (they could, but they're really pigeonholing themselves).

[Kitru]

Out of curiosity, if you'd be happier with them rolling it into the normal leveling stats, which job would you like to see stripped of the points, SCH or SMN?

Why would you even need to choose? SCH already gets a different stat loadout from its levels compared to SMN (and, in fact, gets a boost to MND to compensate for the INT traits) so there wouldn't be any trade off between the two: SMN and ACN would simply have 30 higher baseline INT at 50 and SCH would simply have 30 higher MND. The only thing that you inherit when you go to another job is the class abilities and the bonus attribute points; the actual base attribute points are determined solely by the job itself.

[L-D-Omlette]

Why would you even need to choose? SCH already gets a different stat loadout from its levels compared to SMN (and, in fact, gets a boost to MND to compensate for the INT traits) so there wouldn't be any trade off between the two: SMN and ACN would simply have 30 higher baseline INT at 50 and SCH would simply have 30 higher MND. The only thing that you inherit when you go to another job is the class abilities and the bonus attribute points; the actual base attribute points are determined solely by the job itself.

I must have misunderstood your original statement then. This makes much more sense.

[Mcshiggs]

And that's a bad thing?
This would effect you, who has all battle classes at level 50, the most, considering it would nerf all but one of them at a given time (your main).

I wouldn't mind, it makes sense to me that someone that plays black mage most of the time would be able to do more damage than someone that plays monk most of the time but swaps over to black mage for things like Garuda Extreme because they can't figure out wicked wheel. I also know this won't happen, Yoshi-P has already said in some interviews that he has had to kill some of his own ideas for this game because it would force players to make choices that could take away the "everythingness" for one character, like his idea for gladiator, instead of branching to paladin and dark knight, having to make a choice between paladin or dark knight. I like the second idea personally, only put in a quest where you could swap, but maybe put a week long cooldown on it or something. You would still be able to do everything on one character, just not everything right now, and that is one of the problems with this game, people want everything right now, with as little work as possible, that's why there is so much whining about the stats being tied to class instead of job, they say you have to gimp one job or the other, which isn't true, you farm seals, buy hymns then you can swap your points at will, but then those people complain it is too much work, stupid and against the armory system letting you do everything, and they refuse to admit that a summoner with 15 less int is still a summoner, so the system isn't preventing them from being a max stat summoner, their laziness to not farming seals is.

[Mimilu]

"... only put in a quest where you could swap, but maybe put a week long cooldown on it or something. You would still be able to do everything on one character, just not everything right now..."

That's only adding an unneeded annoyance to the game.
With the two things you proposed, 30 bonus points that are shared through out the classes AND a week long cooldown to change jobs, the game is going to screech to a halt.

[Nutz]

In 1.0 bonus stats were tied to your character rather than class and they had a number of issues with attempting to unify that system with the armoury system. Of course there were several other problems (or features if you like) with character level being separate from class rank and I believe 80%-100% of your stats being chosen by the player (every level you'd get like 4 stats to allocate I think, though things were capped). Class guilds sold items (for guild marks rather than gil) to reallocate stats in bulk, like 40 STR -> 40 INT. I suppose some people like the hassle required to go from playing job X effectively to playing job Y effectively, but that just doesn't seem to be in keeping with the spirit of the game at this point in time.

More to the point of the OP, I assume the system is a relic of what I described above. Personally I think it would be more effective if the bonus stats were secondary rather than main so there was at least some kind of choice. There are at least instances where 2 people with the same gear might make different decisions between crit and determination (and accuracy and skill speed), where they'd both make the same choice for their main stat.