Bonus stats are pointless

[Ticklefairy]

And here's an even MORE important question: If you don't care about being able to play all jobs to their fullest because you don't see the issue with 15 primary stat (Which it is absolutely an issue and does gimp your performance) then why are you defending the bonus stats anyway? What benefit do you get out of them? Because if you think for one second you're customizing your character you're mistaken. Anyone who puts stats elsewhere is just being cute. If you want extra VIT then meld crafted rings or get some tank rings from tomes/drops. It's less permanent and time consuming than farming 10k seals every time there's ONE FIGHT where you need extra health.

[Alkimi]

A better idea would have been for the points to be allocated to off stats, so determination, crit rate, skill/spell speed, parry and possibly Piety aswell. At least this way there would be genuine choice for most jobs rather than everyone picking the same one. Taking BLM as an example, any of Determination, Spell Speed or Crit Rate are viable as a choice.

[Kitru]

A better idea would have been for the points to be allocated to off stats, so determination, crit rate, skill/spell speed, parry and possibly Piety aswell.

This is an awesome idea, though they'd need to crank the point allocation budget up from 30 if they're doing this. 30 second stat points means next to nothing at the end game (possibly make it something like 80 and cap the number you can dump into a single secondary stat to 40 so that it's noticeable and not predetermined, since tanks would dump everything into parry).

[Ticklefairy]

And you didn't answer my question Mcshiggs. I already explained why 15 primary stats is a lot. You said you don't care...so why on Earth are you defending the bonus stat system? Why don't you want it to go away? Because right now you seem to just argue that it doesn't need to be changed because it doesn't need to be changed. But if you don't care about stats and playing effectively then what do you care if they just take the bonus stat system out?

[Mcshiggs]

And you didn't answer my question Mcshiggs. I already explained why 15 primary stats is a lot. You said you don't care...so why on Earth are you defending the bonus stat system? Why don't you want it to go away? Because right now you seem to just argue that it doesn't need to be changed because it doesn't need to be changed. But if you don't care about stats and playing effectively then what do you care if they just take the bonus stat system out?

I don't think it needs to be changed, because they give you a way to reset your stats, the only thing I would like changed is that they make the Hymns sellable, so those of us that don't mind putting in a little time can sell them to those that think a little farming is too hard or for some reason you think you are entitled to a free stat reset, just because that's the way you think it should be. I know that 15 can make a difference, so that's why I have plenty of hymns saved up in case I need them. The reason they share the stats is because they are both on the arcanist class, and the points go to the class, the reason you can swap between WHM and DRG or ANY OF THE OTHER JOBS, is because they are based on separate classes, they will be adding more jobs in the future to branch off of the existing classes, you say you understand this system, but you keep comparing a class with two jobs to classes that currently only have one, which leads me to believe you either don't understand the system like you say you do, or my original thought, you want everything handed to you because you don't think it should take any work to be able to min/max any job, while you are at it, why don't you go on about how you leveled a job to 50, why should you now have to go through the process of gearing it, or leveling up other classes for cross class skills, or maybe even you leveled, you watched the you tube videos so you "know" the fights, so you are just entitled to any Twintania drops because according to your idea of the armory system, you should be able to switch freely to any job and be able to have max stats without putting any time into it? Also what are you doing each week that requires max stats on multiple jobs, if you run turn 1 on scholar, turn 2 on summoner, then turn 4 on scholar again, and you can do that, guess what, you can do without the 15 extra mind for turn 1, but I doubt you bounce back and forth for every turn, I think it's just something there for you to complain about.

About the "Let me educate you," since that is too harsh for you which would you prefer? Let me drop some knowledge on you, Let me tell you what's up, Here is the 411, Let me give you some information you are currently lacking, Allow me to impart some of my genius upon the masses, Please read on to benefit from the public service I provide to inform the otherwise uninformed, or maybe even You are welcome in advance for the plethora of information you are about to be ambushed by? Please let me know, I would enjoy being able to go forward educating the people in a more palatable manner so my words can be sang from the mountain tops and freely shared by the masses.

[Ticklefairy]

snip

Being condescending is unnecessary and rude.

I understand how the system works...I get it. I think that it needs to be changed. Just because they set up the system a certain way doesn't mean it can't be improved for the better.

If you think it's ok to have to choose our stats for ACN and thus have to farm tomes for stat changes then why don't we just make the attributes character based? So that whenever you want to play a different job with different needs you can farm 10k seals to switch it up? I mean, that'd be cool by you, right? As long as that was the system in place and SE intended it to be that way that'd be cool right?

Of course not. It'd be stupid. People would make separate characters for separate class roles like any other MMO and the whole Job switching system would be annoying and disadvantageous.

[Ticklefairy]

The ENTIRE POINT of the Job system as it is is that you can have one character and level/use all of the jobs/classes in the game on that one character. You can progress as a WHM, switch to a WAR and progress...and so on.

So when they put in something like this attribute system and have it be class based, but there are two jobs with opposing stat needs on that one class, it then makes it cumbersome to switch between the two if you want to be effective at them. So most people choose one and don't play the other. Right now that's only one job you have to go without (SMN or SCH) but it's still for a really stupid reason. And this'll only get worse as they add more classes and jobs and we have to make more choices. This will lead to having to have 2 or more characters on a server just so you can play as all the different jobs in the game. It's a cumbersome system for no benefit.

[Ticklefairy]

Which brings me back to what I said before. You STILL have not answered my question.

What do you LIKE about the bonus attribute system? Why do you want it to stay and what do you think it adds to the game in a positive way? Thus far all you have argued is that it doesn't need to be changed because anyone can waste some time farming 10000 seals every time they want to switch. That isn't positive, that's cumbersome. But even if you disagree with it being cumbersome...do you get enjoyment out of it? What is in the bonus attribute system for you? Why do you like it so much?

[Mcshiggs]

The system makes people make a choice, like the devs intended for it to do, you can choose to be the best at one job per class, or do a little work so you can be the best at both, and you still haven't said how it is impossible to play a job without max stats, you keep saying that if you don't have max stats, then the game keeps you from playing that job, that is not the game, that is all in your head, I don't need max mind to heal primals, so if my stats are shifted to int, and someone needs me to heal, I can still go scholar, and get the job done without swapping stats, however if someone wants me to heal turn 4, I would go ahead and swap my stats, that being said, if I healed turn 4 that week, that means I wouldn't be doing that on summoner, so wow, that is using one hymn that week. I look forward to seeing more jobs per class, making more people make choices, with a game full of people complaining about lack of choice, this is actually one of the only choices you can make right now, but the same people that complain about not being able to make choices are complaining about having to make a choice. Is what I am about to do worth that 10k seals? If it is then swap the points, if it's not, then don't, make a choice for your character. If you want to just do two characters on one server to avoid this, guess what, they allow you to do that, it is yet another choice you can make.

Another thing I enjoy about it is how much it pisses people like you off, they have already said in interviews why the system is the way it is, and that is the way it is going to stay. If they ever do change it because a new thread pops up each week whining that it does need to be changed because, "It's stupid, I don't like it" why would they stop with this, next thing you know we will be playing XI with better graphics.

You can also edit your posts, to add more to them, unless your goal is to bump your post count, if it is keep going, I look forward to you hitting your daily limit to keep you posting again for 24 hours.

[Ticklefairy]

snip

Not trying to boost post count, I just didn't know how to get around the 1000 word limit. It was annoying me, actually, so thanks for the tip.

And what you're describing isn't a choice. It's something you have to work around. You just said that if you wanted to heal T4 you'd do so and then spend 10k seals just to switch back to SMN. It's a needless timesink. Right now it's only one class so sure...people can do the 10k seals. But what about if there's 2 classes or 3? Eventually it's going to get to the point where people are going to have to have two characters so that they don't have to deal with the BS timesink that is farming seals just so they can switch back and forth between their jobs. Which goes against the entire point of the Armory System.

The stats were supposed to be a way that you could make your class/job unique. Maybe you're a more durable healer or a tank that does more damage. But the fact is that no one does that because it's not useful or effective. So that "customization" they intended isn't happening.

And speaking of intention, just because the devs say that something is "working as intended" doesn't mean it's A. Better that way or B. Actually working as intended.

SE has already said that about multiple things (One example being Dark Device FATE farming) and then turned around and changed them. They can change their mind or come around just like anything else.

The stats aren't a choice. They are a limiter. The stats aren't doing anything on any of the classes (because there's no choice since the allocation is a no-brainer) except for the ACN. And what does it do for the ACN? Nothing but limit your play. That's bad design.

Like I've said a million times, why is it totally cool/fine to you that you have to essentially choose to specialize in SCH/SMN but you don't have to choose between any other jobs? You cite healing T4 as SCH and then doing other stuff as a SMN as an example...well I can do exactly that as WHM and BLM with absolutely no timesink or penalty. So are you saying that you want every class/job to be that way? Because that's just going to end up with people having two characters. Which would be stupid.

I really think you need to open your mind a little because you seem to have this mindset of "That's the way they made it which makes it correct." The developers are not inherently correct in their design choices and I'm saying that this is incongruent with the rest of the way the system works. They can cover their butts by saying how "It's working as intended. We meant for this to be this way. Everything's working fine," but it's not ok. It's dumb.

Remember when WAR were underpowered and they said that it was totally fine and Warriors were great and working as intended? Same thing. People kept at it and assured SE that something needed to be done. That resulted in SE fine-tuning the job and now they are really well balanced compared to PLD.

We need to be looking for ways for this game to step forward and this Bonus Attribute system isn't contributing anything at all. All it's doing is making me not play SMN because I prefer SCH. So SMN is left in the dust for no good reason, but every other job in the game is free for me to play at my leisure with no silly timesinks or "choices" involved. That fluidity is what the Armory System is capable of and intended to be used for.