Translations (JP to English)

[LemmingKingXXX]

I remember people said the same thing about Salvage duping exploit. "It was a developers mistake and I'm just using it, I can't be banned."

Sorry kid, if they want to ban for it they easily could as it does benefit you for exploiting a flawed trigger, but Yoshida said they would't, not they couldn't or shouldn't ban for it.

This is still a "shouldn't ban" given the high cost of entry and very limited impact on the general population

[Chardrizard]

I remember people said the same thing about Salvage duping exploit. "It was a developers mistake and I'm just using it, I can't be banned."

Sorry kid, if they want to ban for it they easily could as it does benefit you for exploiting a flawed trigger, but Yoshida said they would't, not they couldn't or shouldn't ban for it.

Except this isn't an explot, it's a flawed design.

[Elexia]

Except this isn't an explot, it's a flawed design.

You do know an exploit means using a flaw in design to benefit..right? Salvage exploit was using a flaw in how it calculated drops for parties in that raid which caused it to duplicate gear, here's burning it down so fast causes garuda to not use HP checks for phases.

They're the same thing, when the developer states you can basically get around something due to x, it's called an exploit if you use it, since it's not a mere case of her unable to trigger it due to dying so fast, it's because by design she can't, aka flaw, aka anyone who does this is now exploiting a flaw.

[AdvancedWind]

You do know an exploit means using a flaw in design to benefit..right? Salvage exploit was using a flaw in how it calculated drops for parties in that raid which caused it to duplicate gear, here's burning it down so fast causes garuda to not use HP checks for phases.

They're the same thing, when the developer states you can basically get around something due to x, it's called an exploit if you use it, since it's not a mere case of her unable to trigger it due to dying so fast, it's because by design she can't, aka flaw, aka anyone who does this is now exploiting a flaw.

So, those players should either gimp their BLMs or go as a different job or else they're "exploiting a flaw" because they're too strong?

[HiirNoivl]

Yeah I know right?

[HiirNoivl]

Others who have tried it did get 2hr very early and it was of course survivable. They still won because her HP was so low she could die in less than a minute later with no real consequence other than maybe missing the no deaths achievement if someone died.

[Airget]

Others who have tried it did get 2hr very early and it was of course survivable. They still won because her HP was so low she could die in less than a minute later with no real consequence other than maybe missing the no deaths achievement if someone died.

This is one thing I think Hamlet did right, the whole point system after the fight which could be used to increase your reward ratio. They could even amp it up for Garuda, to push away the idea of class stacking grant extra point for using all unique classes or for each unique class in the part.

AKA the basic idea is the "totem" reward could be a guaranteed 1 for every 10k you earn as a reward from the fight, so if you beat Garuda and earned 30k points everyone with the entry fee would recieve 3 of the currency along with whatever chance there was of obtaining the weapon. If you class stack perhaps you would only get 10k-18k which would only give you 1 currency, so basically by setting up the point system people could be more adventurous in their party setups rather then relying on stacking classes/jobs.

[Theplatter]

The irony is, Kirin was never "fixed" due to the zerg strategy, and all it required was some decent gear, rotating bards for 2 hour songs and then just beating the crap out of the mob. Your Garuda strat requires at least "fairly decent" gear, timing to avoid over-nuking and at least some elixirs/mega-ethers and already it's calling for a fix...guessing because dragoons could be used in the Kirin zerg strategy but not the Garuda blm-burn strat...

[Reabs]

You do know an exploit means using a flaw in design to benefit..right? Salvage exploit was using a flaw in how it calculated drops for parties in that raid which caused it to duplicate gear, here's burning it down so fast causes garuda to not use HP checks for phases.

You misunderstand there is a difference between an exploit and a flaw in design. An exploit is actually something users are doing against the developers wishes regardless of if the developers new it was there or not (Salvage exploit). A flaw in design is that it was made that way intentionally (Usually thinking it was impossible to happen) but the users managed to do it (Garuda). Since they (the devs) said themselves this was a design flaw and not an exploit it's not ban-able (This is going by there standards in the past where design flaws aren't banable ex. leve sp thing). They obviously have complete rights to ban users for any reason whatsoever.

Also regardless of this being an exploit or flaw in design the key difference between this and the salvage exploit is the fact that the salvage exploit was kept under wraps for an extremely long time. Posts where intentionally removed from EG websites when they were mentioning the exploit. It was pretty clear on the players part that they were trying to abuse the system to gain from it knowing what they were doing was wrong. This way to kill garuda was just those guys trying to be bamfs.


Also I'm sorry I'm muddying up your thread Rein.

[Reinheart]

Also I'm sorry I'm muddying up your thread Rein.

No problem already posted YoshiP's post in the OP so people should be able to find that post + official one already out also so should be good