Conj needs to be split - WHM and BLM

[Periwinkle]

I tend to compare Conj to Sch very often. I feel that conj is just an easier version of sch. Sch was great because you could access whm and blm spells, but you had limitations. Your dmg output wasnt as great as a BLM's unless you activated certain books. Same thing with healing spells. So managing your books became the big challenge for SCH. I just dont feel that kind of challenge on Conj. The only challenge I have in group play (i only do leves now in groups) is actually getting a nuke cast before the mob dies. I feel like my nukes aren't worth the time.

I think they could leave conj alone, and make a separate whm class with better heals, and a blm class with better nukes and leave conj as the sch class. Maybe start making more moves class specific so that certain things that define a class are only used on that class. Ex: if WHM gets cure IV, then its WHM only. or is BLM gets Freeze II its BLM only. and maybe put refresh and haste in and make them THM and CONJ only. but thats my 2 cents.

[Tsuga]

Q. You have also mentioned the possible introduction of traditional names. How do you see these new names fitting into the existing class system? Do you plan on using the new names as a guide to develop class uniqueness?

A. Yoshida-san is between two possible plans at this time. The first idea is that the traditional names would be introduced as “higher” or “advanced” classes. The traditional classes would thus be something of a goal for players. The second idea is that the traditional names would be more of a subset or specialization within the existing classes.

Whatever change is put into effect needs to be right. He recognizes that he will not be able to change the system again after this, so whatever is put into place needs to work, and be able to be balanced, for years to come. Because of this his team is giving this issue a lot of thought prior to implementation.

http://www.eorzeapedia.com/2011/03/0...naoki-yoshida/

They aren't even considering splitting/changing any of the current classes. That would be retarded, and would alienate people like ME who like using both black magic and white magic, because splitting classes would mean I'd either be forced to play White Mage or Black Mage - whatever SE determined that CON would be turned into. That's not how you please a player base.

SE's idea is better than the OP's, this thread is moot.

[MagicofGaia]

I tend to compare Conj to Sch very often. I feel that conj is just an easier version of sch. Sch was great because you could access whm and blm spells, but you had limitations. Your dmg output wasnt as great as a BLM's unless you activated certain books. Same thing with healing spells. So managing your books became the big challenge for SCH. I just dont feel that kind of challenge on Conj. The only challenge I have in group play (i only do leves now in groups) is actually getting a nuke cast before the mob dies. I feel like my nukes aren't worth the time.

I think they could leave conj alone, and make a separate whm class with better heals, and a blm class with better nukes and leave conj as the sch class. Maybe start making more moves class specific so that certain things that define a class are only used on that class. Ex: if WHM gets cure IV, then its WHM only. or is BLM gets Freeze II its BLM only. and maybe put refresh and haste in and make them THM and CONJ only. but thats my 2 cents.

I agree to this. I was just having a conversation yesterday where we were comparing Conj to a simplified SCH.

If they keep Conj the way it is (for the most part) and later implement a different class that is more potent in Healing or DPS magic I would be happy.

[Wyngale]

Being flexible means you are never bored when the party is at full health, and never helpless when the party is dying. Once you learn to pay attention to both the enemy and the party, it's great fun to manage both at the same time, tossing nukes and buffs and heals with wild abandon! It keeps you on your toes.

Being a dedicated healer, or nuker, to me means just setting up a rotation and going through it, over and over.

[Civilrant]

I'm really against splitting the versatility of the mage jobs up because I for one enjoy being able to take over both offensive and defensive roles at once and it was a major part of the appeal for Conjurer for me. I feel that instead there should be traits, abilities, gear, or some other customization tool, to allow us to optimize in one role while weakening the other so we can specialize according to how we want to play our class, but leaving the versatility option open.

Estellios makes a very valid point and one ive heard before. However, it has become an expection for most MMOs out there, that if you have a heal button you will be forced to use it. I ranked Conj with the specific intention of being a BLM like many others but i an often expected to heal (My attribute points are 184 INT 120 PIE, the rest are baseline) and being spec'd for a DD makes me a poor healer.
That said, many of the 3-4 man parties i join dont need much healing and i dont mind tossing a "few" heals to the tank. But bringing a BLM to a NM fight as a healer is just plain stupid.
What i would suggest is to make the "advanced jobs" focus on either BLM or WHM. But that doesnt mean we're not going to have access to our current abilities. In the future i would like to have my bar filled with all my nukes and a CureIII for when needed. But be so named as a DD.
Has no one played XI with a NIN tank and a BLM healing? I was the NIN and loved double BLM

[Favz]

People like to different roles.
A game where a class are flexible, you may suffer that like to play in a not-usually way.
The reason for this is communication, as many has stated above.
If you join a group and people thinks that you should play in one way and you play in another way there is friction.

To make communication easier I think advanced classes is a good choice.
My suggestion for is that you use the same system that is use in D&D for School specialization.
The basic principle is this you have the option to voluntarily give up your access some types of magic, and then get bigger strength in another part.

I think Conjurer should have 4 advanced classes that gives it flavor.
- One that focus on direct damage from distance
- One that focus on controlling the enemies.
- One that focus on summoning.
- One that focus on healing.
And that it should exist one generalist.

By choosing the advance class that is focus on (direct) damage you gain a bonus on all you (direct) damage spells at the expense of not being able to
use any healing or Crowd control spells.
By choosing the advance class that is focus on controlling the enemies you gain a bonus on all you Crowd control at the expense of not being able to
use any healing or Damage spells spells.
By choosing the advance class that is focus on summoning you gain a bonus on all you summoning at the expense of not being able to use any healing or
Damage spells spells.
By choosing the advance class that is focus on healing you gain a bonus on all you healing at the expense of not being able to use any summoning or
Damage spells spells.

You would then have 5 advanced classes for Conjurer
Elementalist - focus on elemental damage
Green Mage - focus on controlling the enemies
Summoner - focus on summoning .
White Mage - focus on healing
Scholar - "the generalist"

[Turtle]

I think "advancement system" is the word on the street. Yoshi-P even mentioned it. They are jumping between idea's but take comfort in the fact that its on thier to-do list. I also am in favor of splitting the mage classes up, they seem to be hit the hardest with class uniqueness.

[Neptune]

There are tons of FF games with WHM and BLM. We can have one game with unique mages.

[MagicofGaia]

I have edited the OP, please go back and read if you would...

[Turtle]

But that isn't Final Fantasy. Short of that, conjurers are constantly stuck in a cure role. People can't take thier nuking seriously when at higher levels they aren't a legitamate DD. Especially not in comparison to how much thier healing ability would benefit the group over a 500 dmg tier 2 elemental skill(fully buffed from what ive seen). Sure they can do both, but then one gets neglected. Right now thier aren't defined roles in party play, but Yoshi-P is aware of that and intent on fixing it. So we might as well point out conjury. Just my opinion though.