Throw awat the iLv system, implement a PvE Rank system.

[Daenerys_Sedai]

Open the party finder and you'll see them.

I am not sure how that equates to skill. It's simply a matter of either a) What Lurkios said above; or b) Wanting to overgear for the fight. Nobody, at least in this forum or in my experiences in game, has ever made the statement: oh, he's ilvl 87, he must have leet skills (or something to that effect).

[Traek]

I am not sure how that equates to skill. It's simply a matter of either a) What Lurkios said above; or b) Wanting to overgear for the fight. Nobody, at least in this forum or in my experiences in game, has ever made the statement: oh, he's ilvl 87, he must have leet skills (or something to that effect).

Actually a lot do think that. You are on the same server as me, so I'm surprised you try to claim otherwise. It is really terrible on Sarg. *They've cleared content, and have i90 pieces, so they must be good.* Honestly the ilvl reqs are a joke. I cleared Garuda EX > Ifrit EX in a weekend on my MNK alt with i72 gear. I out dps'd everyone in the party, was always last one standing, and on all fights it was my first clear as a MNK (I did go MNK one time on main for Titan EX to give some FC people practice, they didn't get past heart). Even with all that said, I can't get into most EX parties currently because of ilvl lockouts, and I'm ilvl81 now. Most Garuda farms lockout melee, and ask for i85+. I never get hit by wicked wheel, and any i80+ parties I join I out DD the other ranged by 50-90 each time. It is really rather sad, especially considering MNK loses its GL3 about every phase change.

/endrant

ilvl req's put in place by SE is fine, they are reasonable and know the minimum amount to complete content. It is pretty sad to see the playerbase rely so heavily on them as some marker of completing fights. Most the time the players are terrible, regardless of ilvl.

All that said, cleared content isn't much of a marker toward rank either. There is always small exceptions, but I'd find the system just as abrasive if not more so toward new players, and people without the time to run on the raid treadmill as much as others. Asking for experience for content needing experience isn't a bad thing. I've seen people in T5 weapons eat dirt just as much on Titan EX as about any other. Skill isn't easily measured.

[Daenerys_Sedai]

It is really terrible on Sarg. *They've cleared content, and have i90 pieces, so they must be good.*

Sad times on Sarg. I guess I have been fortunate to avoid those groups or parties. Nonetheless, I think we both agree that iLvl does not equal competent player.

[Traek]

Sad times on Sarg. I guess I have been fortunate to avoid those groups or parties. Nonetheless, I think we both agree that iLvl does not equal competent player.

True story. Didn't mean to fly off the handle on you. Bit touchy subject I guess since I am currently going through it on my alt, even at ilvl81 now. Can't even get into a coil static, most dismiss based on ilvl (more then enough HP for twintania) for FC/LS that I've applied. It just makes my brain explode that people will take someone with a shiny vs. someone who blows people out of the water when it comes to skill/dps/whatever, and is working on gear (sigh RNG).

I agree with LalaRu, you really gotta grab onto the people you know aren't terrible.

[Gamemako]

Setting an ilvl requirement simply means you want players... to complete content at the desired... success rate. It has nothing to do with skill.

Fundamentally contradictory statement, since it can easily be completed at ilvl57 with competent players and will still be hopeless at ilvl75 with crappy players.

I cleared Garuda EX > Ifrit EX in a weekend on my MNK alt with i72 gear. I out dps'd everyone in the party, was always last one standing, and on all fights it was my first clear as a MNK (I did go MNK one time on main for Titan EX to give some FC people practice, they didn't get past heart).

Ha, I feel ya. The fun thing about playing a DPS over a tank is that you get to see this awesome bar that shows how bad everyone else really is. Ain't nothin' like tanking a giant, being eaten by KB, and being eaten by Acheron due to tank deaths all in the same run... with i71 gear.

[NaliaBrown]

Fundamentally contradictory statement, since it can easily be completed at ilvl57 with competent players and will still be hopeless at ilvl75 with crappy players.

This may be true, but I think one of the reasons people set the ilvl higher for fights like Titan HM is because with a higher ilvl requirement, there's a greater chance at getting players who are competent. It's not a guarantee by any means. It just helps your odds.

[Gamemako]

This may be true, but I think one of the reasons people set the ilvl higher for fights like Titan HM is because with a higher ilvl requirement, there's a greater chance at getting players who are competent. It's not a guarantee by any means. It just helps your odds.

Which is quite explicitly conflating gear level and skill.

[NaliaBrown]

*sigh* I'm not actually arguing for or against either side of this argument. I'm just trying to explain why some people set the ilvl higher for fights like Titan HM in party finder.

[Lurkios]

Fundamentally contradictory statement, since it can easily be completed at ilvl57 with competent players and will still be hopeless at ilvl75 with crappy players.

Saying things does not make those things truths. If you're attempting to deny that you have a better chance of completing content in an efficient manner with a random sampling of ilvl75 players than you do with a random sampling of ilvl57 players you are a fool.