Supporter

[Sinaloa]

I would like to see a real supporter in the game. The way I would do it is:

All his skills do have about 20% less potency than any other DD´s.

His skills support different classes. Any skilleffect lasts 18 seconds. That way he has to choose if he supports up to two classes close to the maximum or if he splits his attention.

He supports tank classes by:

Combohit one - no benefit
Combohit two - slashing resistance of the target is reduced by 5%
combohit three - aggromultiplier of any skill that hits the target is enhanced by +1

He supports Casters by:

5 second casttime-skill: Area of effect: Any enemy in the area takes 15% more damage by magic damage.
(I know Blm gains more. Wait for it.)

He supports Dotters by:

Instantcast singletarget. Any dot active on the target got a +15% chance to hit critical with a 2.0 multipier.

He supports Dragoons/bards/monks by:

combohit 1 no benefit
combohit 2 reduces piercing resictance by 5%
combohit 3 reduces piercing resistance by an additional 5%
Bonus effect if hit from the side: melee attacks done from the side do 5% more damage

He supports monks and dragoons by:

combohit 1 no benefit
combohit 2 reduces blunt resistance by 5%
combohit 3 reduces blunt resistance by an additional 5%
Bonus effect if hit from the side: melee attacks with any positional modifier do 5% more damage

He supports Healers by:

2.5 second cast targeted: Target recieves 1% of the damage done as hp (maybe 2% but it should be weaker than a crossclassed bloodbath)
Instant targeted: The next heal that hits the target gains 50% more potency. Pacifies self for 7 seconds.

He supports bards by:

toggle ability 2 sec cast: pays half the cost of any bard song active and takes half the malus the bard/s may suffer.


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Taken that combohit 1 would be one skill for all that would sum up in 12 skills opening room for some debuffing skills and ofc a silence.

For crossclass I would give him arcanist and pugilist to enhance his supportskills even more with Virus Manta and e4e.

His damage should be unassinged so he can´t profit from his own buffs.

[Hiroradius]

So in essence you want 1 tank, 1 healer, 1 dps, and 1 support?

Unforatenly because SE decided to go the 4 man dungeon route, a true support class does not work. In a 5 man yes it can, but in a 4 man no (you think dps ques are crazy now, imagine have to reserve a spot for support instead, or will support be classified as dps then groups get screwed over by df by having 2 support classes be placed in so dps is lacking causing more grief and stress on tank and healer since fights must last a lot longer)

[Sinaloa]

So in essence you want 1 tank, 1 healer, 1 dps, and 1 support?

Unforatenly because SE decided to go the 4 man dungeon route, a true support class does not work. In a 5 man yes it can, but in a 4 man no (you think dps ques are crazy now, imagine have to reserve a spot for support instead, or will support be classified as dps then groups get screwed over by df by having 2 support classes be placed in so dps is lacking causing more grief and stress on tank and healer since fights must last a lot longer)

No. It would fill a dps. He would buff the rest of the Groups dps enough to make up for the lack of his own. Even higher if he´s good - less if not. Just like any DPS.

[Hiroradius]

No. It would fill a dps. He would buff the rest of the Groups dps enough to make up for the lack of his own. Even higher if he´s good - less if not. Just like any DPS.

So he would buff one person's dps enough to make up for his lack of dps? Because in essence again you have a healer who should not be dpsing, should be focusing on healing and esuna and the likes. You have a tank who's dps really isn't expected to be high because he has to hold threat, and then you have a dps who does the damage, but now your going to put someone there who just raises his dps and makes it harder for the tank to hold threat?


Yes I would love to have real support classes, but it just doesn't work in a 4 man party. Hopefully SE will change this when the new expansion comes out and make it 5 man parties.

[Sinaloa]

Ok I get it. You didn´t read the op. But thank you for the interest.

[Anova]

I see something of a combination between pugilist and bard here, or perhaps it is a gladiator and bard (depending on how those combos work). I do find myself comparing this idea with bard, especially to mp song, tp song, and foe requiem.

Admittedly, there isn't enough details about how the combo mechanics work for me to really say one way or the other. I know the pugilist and lancer classes already have skills to debuff enemies and decrease piercing and blunt damage. It is a solid enough mechanic to apply debuffs to increase damage, although as Hiro mentioned, the supporter will probably have to support the tank and dps or the tank and healer combo to keep the party working properly. I can see a benefit to increasing the enmity generated, but it sounds like a debuff applied to an enemy. Would that increase the enmity generated by the entire party? If so, how does the tank generate more enmity under such conditions? Wouldn't you want to apply it as a buff to just the tank then? How difficult would it be for a player to target a friendly player while dps-ing in combat? I honestly don't see a class that does that yet, so I'm guessing there's a big problem for the userbase to switch between enemies and friendlies (especially on a console).
I can't comment on the healing boost yet, although I would be more comfortable if the tank or healer had it as they will have a closer eye on the enmity bar and be the first victims if it is used incorrectly. I'd also be really worried about trolls using the supporter as it is a class who can quickly generate aggro on the wrong party member and is naturally very low on the enmity table (because of their reduced damage). This means they can cause a wipe and have enough time to use return to avoid equipment damage. While most players don't troll, it does present an unequal opportunity to cause grief and I worry about the player response to seeing a supporter after enough incidents like that.

Also, have you given some thought to boosting secondary stats such as crit rate, accuracy, and determination as a way to support? If you want to apply debuffs, reducing evasion, increasing critdamage, and just lowering p.def or m.def on an enemy might create the same effect without you worrying. As a bonus, you don't have to worry about creating a different skillset to boost the damage of supporters if 2+ supporters should appear in the dps roles of a party.

While I'm playing devil's advocate, I have to wonder what the identity for this idea is. Is it a new base class or job? Is it magic or physic-based? Should we call it a dancer? I have a difficult time imagining how the supporter fits in (other than that it fills a burning desire among the playerbase to play a support dps class like the bard) and the whole concept lacks appeal because of it. Why not put these armor debuff skills on their respective classes and leave it at that? Why should the supporter have these abilities?

[Radriel]

It isn't too elegant a solution, but if you change the targeting filter when wielding and not wielding a weapon, you can also change between targeting enemies easily and allies easily on console especially if you also make use of the enemy list. Either that or add a hotkey or macro for the changing of targeting filter.

I personally don't think Supporter as a class or Job is a good idea(Aesthetically or from a game design standpoint), but I think the idea of supporter as a role(or a sub role of DPS) is an interesting direction for the game. I don't think this is something that should show much in 4 man dungeons, but I see a lot of potential for raid design. If this does become a thing and we see more classes or Jobs like Bard(who already receive a 20% damage penalty when using support skills), we need to make sure design is not dependent on the presence of these classes or jobs. Otherwise it would make queuing or building these raid parties harder.

[Maku]

Ok I get it. You didn´t read the op. But thank you for the interest.

Actually, it is apparent that he did indeed read it and presented very valid arguments. Everything Hiroradius said is true. Especially, about the DF giving you twp "supporters" in the 2 DPS slots which would make for one hell of a long dungeon with the lack of real DPS. In longer fights MNKs already have a very high hate level even if the Tank is doing everything perfectly. Making them hit harder would make that worse. You address this with the hate generating ability for tank support but you pretty much limit yourself to having to have that tank hate up ability active 100% of the time if you are boosting DPS.

I miss my BRD from FFXI (from the old days) but in this game with 4 man content a support class that is classified as a DPS will only hurt the game. And splitting the DF to take one of each also will never be an option cause of all the DPS classes we have and the long waits already.

[Hiroradius]

Ok I get it. You didn´t read the op. But thank you for the interest.

Ahhh but I did, but ok.

First the game is a 4 man party. 1 tank, in which all your doing is giving him the ability to produce something that isn't needed except in the first 3 or 4 seconds of a fight. Agro.. He also gives the mobs 5% slashing debuff soooo the lowest dps class can do a bit more damage that isn't suppose to be the damage, maybe if we had another slashing type dps in the game something, but otherwise the tank debuff is a waste and will never be used, in a 4 man, 5 man, or 8 man party.


Second, for casters dps.. he has an ability to increase magic damage by 15%, so like my arguement he is buffing one person in the party's damage (4 man party that is), he also can increase dot damage.. So in a 4 man party which is the basic make-up in the game, 1 tank which get's no buffs from supporter, 1 healer who shouldn't be dpsing could get buffed if they decide to throw out an occasional stone or aero, 1 caster dps (if that is chosen for the party) get's a buff, and then this class who has a major dps nerf? Again, as my statement stated, he is buffing one person in the party.

Third, melee dps.. he has the ability to reduce the blunt or piercing damage by up to 10%, so again he can increase the monk or the dragoon's dps (again it will be one or the other in a 4 man party since you have a tank, healer, and this class) at the cost of having someone else who can't dps?? Again, does not work in this game's chosen idea of a 4 man dungeon. Too much dps loss just to make a monk or dragoon parse higher..

4th, the healer support. Makes a chosen target.. i.e., the tank split damage with someone else? How does that help the healer? Now by having this ability up the healer has to heal 2 people instead of one.. Again you will say, but it's only 1%(2%), but it's a constant damage of 1%(2%) coming in also including any damage that person has to take from a cleave, or aoe effect, and it becomes a spot where the healer has 2 people to manage now, instead of 1. Also the next heal gaining 50% more potency, while could be useful in certain raid fights, it would also mean that this class would need to pay attention to the health bars while trying to buff while trying to dps to see if the healer needs it, and also know who the healer would want it on since now you have 2 people taking constant damage. That ability would end up being just like eye for an eye or virus, but used even less.

5th supporting the bard...lmao again your going to in a 4 man dungeon support a class that is their for support to make their support better? So they can sing more for longer to buff classes/job that aren't their becasue this class is taking up the space in a 4 man dungeon.

So again, as I pointed out with each of the buffs for this class.. in a 4 man dungeon, which is the basic make-up this game chose, this class is a liability. Now in a 8 man raid, possible uses if the classes are stacked (in which SE doesn't want class stacking which is why they added the nerf to the limit break bar for stacked classes), so it has uses but it goes against what SE vision is.

Again, as I stated before.."Yes I would love to have real support classes, but it just doesn't work in a 4 man party. Hopefully SE will change this when the new expansion comes out and make it 5 man parties. "

So don't think I didn't read, I read everything you posted, and pointed out simply the flaws to your idea.. now I pointed them out more specifically.

In a 4 man party, a full support class does not work.

Also, since it would be classified as a dps., let's throw something else out at you. You do a duty finder group, you get a tank, a healer, and 2 of these class. and since it's buff can't help itself, you bring in a tank who has no need of agro buffs because it's dps help will be sucky, a healer who doesn't want the classes buffs, and then itself twice who can't dps well...

To do a real support class, with a dungeon finder/duty finder.. you need a 5 man party, 1 tank, 1 healer, 2 dps, and 1 support. And then you need more support classes, in which bard would probably be turned into a support to work.. but again Final Fantasy 14 is a 4 man group..

[sylin]

Just have support type classes fill a dps slot, it wouldn't screw you to have 2 supports, they would amplify the dmg of the others.

Maybe for ease make it 1tank 1 healer 1dps and then 1support/ or dps.

Problem solved, typically support classes are dps tho, that augment or somehow easify stuff.