Please keep: Surplus, repairs, stat point allocation and job flexibility!

[ShinChuck]

I proposed the rested system or a mitigation of the system since the very beginning of the beta 2 phase. But I'm also aware that telling a developer "just scrap it" simply doesn't work.
If you want to get something from developers you need to mediate.

Also, the experience curve gets slapped around quite often during a release and in the following weeks. You cannot judge a system that influences it until it stabilizes.

As I said, the system isn't "Bad" per se, but it can be done better, and now that the team has changed, there's a serious possibility that the new director will consider just replacing it with something equally functional but less convoluted.

But the idea had been around long before the XIV beta, and was almost assuredly bandied about prior to Beta 2. I've asked for search functions, MP regen, and better targetting since the beta. That doesn't mean I originated those ideas, nor will I actually try to say out of every single person ever discussing FFXIV I was the first to bring them up.

You also never mentioned that you'd prefer a resting-based EXP system back when we were debating the Fatigue system, so forgive me if it sounds a little convenient now that, with SE leaning that way, you say, "But I really supported the idea from the beginning!"

We had enough experience at the time to judge the system. And the complaints ended up being correct, which also supports the idea that we had judged correctly and in an appropriate time frame. So correct, in fact, that SE has acknowledged this. It again sounds convenient that you say you supported a different system, but also say that you felt the fatigue system in place could be fine (a judgment in itself).

If we didn't have enough time to judge it, why would you argue for a different system? You'd have no grounds to.

Even all that being said, I do agree with the last part, I think the new team will likely make some notable changes to it.

[Abriael]

But the idea had been around long before the XIV beta, and was almost assuredly bandied about prior to Beta 2

Beta 2 is when people actually NOTICED the system. Before beta 2 Fatigue was an unknown concept.

You also never mentioned that you'd prefer a resting-based EXP system back when we were debating the Fatigue system, so forgive me if it sounds a little convenient now that, with SE leaning that way, you say, "But I really supported the idea from the beginning!"

Beta forums were public. My nickname never changed. But you're very free not to believe it. I don't really care.
The fact that I didn't mention it with you over twitter, doesn't mean I didn't mention it anywhere. You aren't really the center of my world, and Twitter isn't the center of my online activities.

We had enough experience at the time to judge the system.

Nope. Until the experience curve is stable you can't judge how much the system will change it.

And the complaints ended up being correct

Quite the opposite. The complaints ended up being wildly exaggerated and overboard. Surplus was painted as a gamekiller, forcing people not to play more than a few hours a week and all that, and then lined with urban legends and trolling and hate agendas.

On the other hand reality demonstrated that surplus killed nothing, that's nearly ininfluential on 99% of the players' experience of the game and that people just went up in arms over nearly nothing.

Surprlus isn't the devil as you and others painted it. It has never been, and it will never be. This doesn't mean that there's no better alternative possible.

If we didn't have enough time to judge it, why would you argue for a different system? You'd have no grounds to.

You know, people speculate during betas, and offer suggestions/feedback, even when information is limited. I tend to as well.

[Rayle]

Surplus system needs to be taken out. I don't know why SE puts up walls like this to keep players out. The surplus punishes people for playing too much and thats not the right thing to do. It should reward people for taking breaks, like rested exp.

[Demacia]

Surplus system needs to be taken out. I don't know why SE puts up walls like this to keep players out. The surplus punishes people for playing too much and thats not the right thing to do. It should reward people for taking breaks, like rested exp.

This. There's absolutely no reason for a decent game to use a system like that. Any player who understands how the armory system works already knows he has to level multiple classes to be effective anyway.

[Wolfie]

Agreed, keep all the systems that made this game receive awful negative criticism. They've done a great job at keeping people playing and roping in new players.

[Rayle]

This. There's absolutely no reason for a decent game to use a system like that. Any player who understands how the armory system works already knows he has to level multiple classes to be effective anyway.

So, you are saying, then, that because I want to level Conjurer because I enjoy it I should be punished for playing too much? Just because I COULD do something else? That doesn't sound very fair to me.

[Demacia]

So, you are saying, then, that because I want to level Conjurer because I enjoy it I should be punished for playing too much? Just because I COULD do something else? That doesn't sound very fair to me.

Read my post carefully please. I'm suggesting that you should NOT be punished for sticking to one class because that's what you enjoy. Not by the game at least. The other players can yell at you all they want though.

[Rayle]

Read my post carefully please. I'm suggesting that you should NOT be punished for sticking to one class because that's what you enjoy. Not by the game at least. The other players can yell at you all they want though.

I'm sorry. I thought you meant there would be no place for my suggestion in the game. My mistake.

[ShinChuck]

Beta 2 is when people actually NOTICED the system. Before beta 2 Fatigue was an unknown concept.
Beta forums were public. My nickname never changed. But you're very free not to believe it. I don't really care.
The fact that I didn't mention it with you over twitter, doesn't mean I didn't mention it anywhere. You aren't really the center of my world, and Twitter isn't the center of my online activities.

WoW has had a rewards-based system for a long time, as have many others. Forgive me for not believing you originated discussion of a fairly commonplace MMO aspect in regards to XIV. EXP issues had certainly been discussed by many - developers, fans - long before "fatigue" showed up in force.

But for not caring, you're certainly taking the time to try and sound convincing!

Nope. Until the experience curve is stable you can't judge how much the system will change it.


Quite the opposite. The complaints ended up being wildly exaggerated and overboard. Surplus was painted as a gamekiller, forcing people not to play more than a few hours a week and all that, and then lined with urban legends and trolling and hate agendas.

On the other hand reality demonstrated that surplus killed nothing, that's nearly ininfluential on 99% of the players' experience of the game and that people just went up in arms over nearly nothing.

Surprlus isn't the devil as you and others painted it. It has never been, and it will never be. This doesn't mean that there's no better alternative possible.

We judged, and judged properly, by your own admission. People went up in arms - and SE agrees with them, it appears. So whether or not *you* deem it was over nothing, much of the fanbase, and SE themselves, seem to agree it was something an issue.

And myself and many others had asked for one of the better (your word!) alternatives. I even said as much it wasn't the "devil" but it was the principle and the alternatives available. So you concede to defending a system knowing there's better out there. Fair enough, I'll gladly accept that concession to our debate months ago, and give you props for being forthright about it!

[TonyMontana]

I am in the opposite opinion on a few topics and I would like to explain why;

First, Surplus. The intent of surplus is to prevent players from leveling 1 job to max level and ignoring the content of all the other classes. By penalizing players who either grind too long on 1 class (or bot) they "entice" you to hop on another class and level it alongside your other classes and in the same light allow "casuals" to keep up.

Please keep the surplus, its annoying to players like me who play too much, but it keeps casuals in the game and makes people play other classes.

Second, crafter repairs and repair NPC. Thank you for making crafting classes more than just a "sidequest" to leveling a battle class. The amount of depth in the current system is wonderful. The mechanic of breaking weapons isn't new, nor is NPC repairing the items.

Fixing gear by employing a "crafter" is wonderful and just because people are too busy powerhousing 1 job to 50 to realize they could have been more effective and leveld a craft or asked one in their ls, doesn't mean you should do away with it. Reduce the prices of NPC repairs maybe, but don't remove repairs or take away features that make crafting robust like battle classes.

Third, Stat point allocation. I LOVE this system and I am VERY attached to being able to spec myself however I want. On several occasions I did something fun an out of the ordinary (like tanking The Great Buffalo on Conjurer) and LOVED the challenge it provided. Sure, I COULD have been on Gladiator and done it with ease, but whats the point? I leveled both classes so that I could use all my skills and points however I wanted and I don't think that should be taken away. Being able to backup heal on my Archer if s#!t hits the fan, or being able to tank on my Lancer when the tank isn't around is AWESOME. Now, I know I can't do it as EFFECTIVE as the classes that are intended to do them, but the fact that I CAN is why I love it.

Keep stat point allocation so that us players who want to be a flexible and well rounded character aren't pigeon holed into "defined classes" Make the classes defined in their own right and let the players step outside that box themselves with their own setups.

And finally, this leads to Job Flexibility. Keep the system where jobs can use other abilities at a reduced accuracy, damage, effectiveness etc... Make it so that the classes on their own have a "unique" feel, but DON'T take away the fact that I can have a ton of MP on my GLD to cure 3 myself when healers aren't present.

Whew, thanks for reading, I know its not what a lot of people want to hear, but I feel strongly and wanted to share.

Thanks!

Doctor Mog

Bad news for you SE will not keep the system the same. Enjoy playing the game the majority creates for you.