Aggro, threat generation, and pugilists...

[Crystles]

So i just invited a couple of friends to join me in FF14. Excited. One of them is likely going to go healer, the other a caster. So what I'm wondering is how the aggro mechanics work in FF14...

Thus far, i notice that no matter how hard i slam an enemy, i cant steal aggro. Pugilists have some pretty good survival skills that would allow me to take a considerable amount of hate for a while, contingent on being able to take it and then let it go and give it to another combatant when i've done my part.

However i havnt been able to figure out how that works. As far as i can tell, the guy who started attacking first, keeps 100% of the aggro. If a mob goes after some one, and they start dying, i have no way to step in and apply myself to keep that from happening.

Further, i've gone as far as to stand there and stop attacking, but i cant get aggro off of me once a mob has me in their sight.

I'm wondering if i'm doing something wrong or if this is just how the game works.

[File2ish]

So the enmity mechanics generally revolve around the tank (gladiator/paladin and marauder/warrior) using their skills like Rage of Halone and Overpower to keep the hate on them. Many tank skills have an enmity multiplier so the enemies stay on said tank, giving the healer one target to focus on. That's why there are 3 roles in the game for the various classes/jobs. Tanks keep the mobs on them, damage dealers (DD/DPS) do exactly what the name implies, as does the healer role.

Generally, enmity is gained through damage and HP healed (healers get enmity when they heal) and build up each hit/heal. However, tank skills like Overpower, Flash, Savage Blade, and Skull Sunder have an enmity multiplier on them for when they use the attack. The multiplier for tank actions like these is meant to keep the hate on them so no one else takes gets hurt (or gets hurt less often in some cases). If the tank decides to slow down on using or not to use their enmity attacks they will lose hate pretty quickly. Tanks do little damage in comparison to DPS jobs like Pugilist/Monk, but they get the highest defense armors and most HP in the game.

Say you get a gladiator tank in Copperbell Mines, on the first group of enemies he pulls one and does Flash once (no damage AoE aggro) to get hate on all three of the mobs and proceeds to focus only on one of the three. One of the DPS decides to attack a mob the tank isn't focused on. That DPS will go up the enmity list for that mob pretty quickly and said mob will turn to attack the DPS wailing on it. The tank can take the hate back with his skills despite the comparatively little damage output he has to the DPS.

As a Pugilist/Monk, you want to do as much damage as possible without taking the hate from the tank in party situations. Generally, if you're focusing on the mob the tank is it will never be an issue and you can go all out with your combos. Non-tank jobs taking hate from the tank can be a nightmare for healers if things get out of hand. It gives them more targets to heal and the cast times mean they may not be able to keep up. If a DPS or healer dies it can mean slow going to kill a monster or a complete wipe and having to try again (luckily not from the very start lol).

If no one in the party is pulling hate from any mob on the tank, the tank is doing his or her job right. That said, it's general consensus to fight the mob the tank is focused on or is marked by number in order (1 then 2 etc.) unless the mechanics of the fight need everyone else to take on additional monsters (like during some boss fights). It makes everyone's jobs easier. The tank keeps everything needed on him, the healer only really needs to focus on one target, and the DPS burn down one enemy at a time (unless certain mechanics dictate otherwise which you'll see in in the game a bit later on).

I hope that wasn't too convoluted or anything. Hope you all enjoy the game!

[Urthdigger]

The only classes that get skills to increase enmity (threat) are gladiator and marauder (the two tank classes). Your defensive skills are there to keep you alive when soloing, or when you manage to steal hate.

Apart from those skills, enmity is a matter of damage dealt and cures given (Curing past full HP still gives the full enmity for how much it would cure). Buffs also add a certain amount of enmity, though not much.

[Anova]

If you are concerned about being able to off-tank and save your friends if they pull, it is certainly possible. It may require one of the other members to slow their dps or healing for you to catch up, and take it back, but it is certainly possible.

Essentially enmity is a tally of point totals affected by a multiplier. Assume over the course of a fight, you deal 2000 damage and the tank deals the equivalent of 2500 damage (with adjusted enmity bonus). Since the tank's total is higher, he has higher enmity and retains aggro. If at one point in the fight you exceed the total on the tank, the target will switch to you and you will have aggro until the tank can exceed your total. Healing works in much the same way, although the multiplier is a somewhere less than that for damage.

Keep in mind your basic attacks, dots, and heals over time will continue adding to the totals. Similarly, the tank will have to work to pull mobs off you at this low level (they don't have as many enmity stealing abilitiies at lv.20). Keep an eye on the enmity meter that appears below your class/job icon in the party ui. That will tell you how much enmity you have on that particular enemy. If your bar is full, you have the most enmity in your entire party. If not, you know how much room you have until you pull threat off.

[Crystles]

Thanks for the super detailed response. I grasped it pretty well actually. Also i didnt know about that enmity meter, glad i know what it does now! We'll probably have to do some co-orinated work to take bigger mobs down. Were thinking of 3 manning boss type fates, which i've found that people get slammed with out either a ton of people hating on the mob, or proper support. We plan to stick together 100%, so this info is valuable.

Last question.

I've noticed that for some reason, when a mob is getting kited, i can no longer hit it literally no matter what. Is this lag? I usually run less than 150, sometimes 200ms for my average speedtest ping, not bad for being in hawaii on a mobile hot spot. But its super obnoxious that i cant continue to deal DPS on a mob just because theyre chasing some one else. And they cant stop or they'll get melted.

[Bixby]

I've noticed that for some reason, when a mob is getting kited, i can no longer hit it literally no matter what. Is this lag? I usually run less than 150, sometimes 200ms for my average speedtest ping, not bad for being in hawaii on a mobile hot spot. But its super obnoxious that i cant continue to deal DPS on a mob just because theyre chasing some one else. And they cant stop or they'll get melted.

Basically.

With FFXIV, the server keeps track of positions of everything, and anytime there's a conflict between what you see on your screen and what what the server thinks is happening, the server wins. By the time you get the data that a mob is at position X, if it's moving, the server already has it at its next position. You'll never catch something you're chasing until it stops.

This is also why, even if you think you're behind or beside the mob when you're solo, you'll almost never get flank/rear bonuses on any of your skills. It may look like you ran around to the side, but the reality is that mobs turn to face you instantly & constantly; you just don't see it.

To hit a moving mob as a melee, you have to run a little bit ahead of them. That puts you where you need to be according to the server, which already has the mob a few steps ahead of where your client shows it. How far ahead depends on how much latency you have. For me, I generally need to be right in front of them, with my feet just outside their targeting ring, unless they're moving at a slower/faster than average speed.

[Sisqi]

This is also why, even if you think you're behind or beside the mob when you're solo, you'll almost never get flank/rear bonuses on any of your skills. It may look like you ran around to the side, but the reality is that mobs turn to face you instantly & constantly; you just don't see it.

Does this apply when the mob is AoE casting and I strafe to the side or run thru to the back? Or is the impression that the mob is "stuck" casting also an illusion?

[Niwashi]

Does this apply when the mob is AoE casting and I strafe to the side or run thru to the back? Or is the impression that the mob is "stuck" casting also an illusion?

The mob will remain facing the same direction until it finishes casting, so that can sometimes give you a chance to get in a flank or rear attack. You may, however, see it finish casting a moment after it actually does. This can lead to being caught in an attack that it looks like you avoided if you're cutting it too close.

[Urthdigger]

I've noticed that for some reason, when a mob is getting kited, i can no longer hit it literally no matter what. Is this lag? I usually run less than 150, sometimes 200ms for my average speedtest ping, not bad for being in hawaii on a mobile hot spot. But its super obnoxious that i cant continue to deal DPS on a mob just because theyre chasing some one else. And they cant stop or they'll get melted.

You should never kite monsters. Unless you use sprint to get ahead they'll hit you as you're running, and they'll take longer to kill (and a tank won't be able to get hate) due to the aforementioned issues. If you or your friends pull hate when you shouldn't, you should stand there, pop defensive abilities, and wait for someone else to take it.

Also, I highly recommend getting a tank to join your little group. You'll then be perfect for all 4-man content (One tank, one melee DPS, one magical DPS, one healer. Lets you use any limit break you want, and you can run PVP in addition to any instance barring the few level 50 8-man), and a tank will be much better at keeping hate and mitigating damage than you (Not only do they have skills to keep hate and increase defense, the armor that suits them has high defense and magic defense, unlike physical DPS which has medium defense and low magic defense, and casters which has medium magic defense and low physical defense.)

[Nemain]

A Matter of HONOR still stands. I replied to your other post. I ran into a guy that said you were asking about the FC in a post he read. We have attained housing and have built a home since then. People have left and come. I am now the GM if I wasn't when you were with us. I kicked you from FC because of inactivity over 30 days and thought that you were never coming back as I do all the same way. If I had known what you were doing I would have kept you in FC. You are more than welcome back and hope that I will see you back. Sorry for the mixup with thining that you were never coming back. We also have a new website amatterofhonor.enjin.com and we have a Mumble server as well with our paid subscription. Hit me up in game. Laterz