Some things I think need to be brought to attention

[Sotek]

The whole situation is kind of a damned if you do damned if you don't situation. Without the Duty Finder we'd be left with the Party Finder which on it's own is only a marginal improvement over FFXI's system of standing around in Jeuno or whichever city you use as a hub and shout/yelling for a group. WITH Duty Finder everyone just stands around at Mor Dhona and DFs into instances. I can tell you though I likely would have had an easier time with Assaults/Salvage if something like Duty Finder had existed during ToAU time in FFXI.

They should just merge the two systems: Search the Party Finder, find a group for whatever you need, it can be on a different server, if you join you're moved to that server temporarily (with trading/etc. disabled for you), then your group goes to South Shroud to enter Amdapor Keep and it's business as usual. All the cross-server conveniences of Duty Finder, with none of the world destroying side effects. If you're a lone little newbie on your server, you might even meet a group on another server who you get alone with and decide to move there, instead of what you'd currently do, which I think is just say goodbye after the instance and probably never see them again.

There might be some technical issues with such a system, but the Duty Finder already moves you to another world, and it already disables trading... I can't see it being too hard...

[Susanoh]

Sorry, but how is that not currently the case? This is a MMO, the whole world isn't handed over at once, right now we haven't even left the Mist Continent, for example. The zones between dungeons? Much better than the nondescript overworld of old. The dungeons? Much bigger than places like The Ice Cavern. If you go back as far as Final Fantasy I, XIV already has more than double the number of zones that had, and Eorzea is only one subcontinent of Hydaelyn...

I don't think too many people are going to be impressed that some progress has been made over Final Fantasy, which was released 27 years ago on an 8 bit console.

Still, even the original Final Fantasy had a sense of exploration and danger, which is what this game lacks. Even in 1.0, you could wander around and find yourself in an entire zone underground in a transition so seamless that it didn't even feel like a "zone," it felt like an extension of the world you were just in. On the other hand, ARR couldn't possibly try to fragment the world any more than it currently does. You can go from green forrests to a land covered in snow in the blink of an eye. Trying to wander into any kind of unknown territory brings up a menu to "queue up" to enter. It doesn't help that there's no sense of danger either, and that you can easily blitz through anywhere you need to go knowing that nothing in the entire world poses any kind of realistic threat. It's not exactly a step forward in terms of what one might expect from a Final Fantasy overworld in 2013. In many ways it's a big step back.

[Parodine]

snip

I definitely agree with your points. For me, size isn't as much of an issue as much as the maps in this game don't feel very... organic. I'm not so much talking about what is in each area as I think the environments themselves are very pretty. But the boundaries/paths are the opposite.

It is a very minor complaint in truth, and not one that I would expect reworkings of current areas, but perhaps better opportunities for future areas.

[Sotek]

Still, even the original Final Fantasy had a sense of exploration and danger, which is what this game lacks.

The original Final Fantasy, and every single one which followed it, pretty much only had a sense of danger in boss fights, which is no less true in XIV. Once you knew what you were doing, grinding overworld mobs was a chore more than anything. Anyone pretending random encounters where "omfg so tense and dangerous!" and not "omfg, this again? seriously?", isn't kidding anyone. Getting hit by heavy when on my chocobo is exactly the same feeling wanting to travel 2 more steps but getting a random encounter that was neither challenging or dangerous that every other game in the series offered.

Exploration? Comparing a single player game to a MMO is somewhat unfair. XIV does have a sense of exploration; I remember in beta (when stuck in Gridania) wondering if we'd get to explore The Ruins of Amdapor south of Camp Tranquil, and the giant ruin from Dalamud in North Shroud. Now, come 2.2, I will be able to. Colour me happy. Same thing happened for 2.1, in early access I remember fishing at Aleport and wondering if we'd get to go inside that Lighthouse, then after doing the main quest I was disappointed we didn't get to go in that Lighthouse, then 2.1 hit and I was happy to explore that Lighthouse. There is a sense of exploration in this game. Only the once of course, then it's just a grind and any sense of exploration is gone, but how is that any less true in any of the other Final Fantasy games? Once I've played them once the sense of exploration is mostly gone and I'm just going through the motions when I replay them. The only difference is I don't replay Final Fantasy very often, meanwhile I play Final Fantasy XIV fairly often because it's a MMO.

You can complain that there is no exploration once you can teleport everywhere if you like. I remember the old games for what they were; there was no sense of exploration once I had an airship and could travel anywhere I wanted very easily, either. Once you've explored the whole world and attuned yourself to all the aetherytes, going from a desert to a tundra is very easy. The exact same is true in all the other games, once you've explored the world and gotten an airship, going from a desert to a tundra takes just as long in Final Fantasy I to X.

[Dyvid]

Only problem I have with Eorzea is the Duty Finder, which completely kills the world by taking you out of it at every possible chance... You go to the entrance of a dungeon once, then never again. Can't wait for Treasure Map Dungeons, which would hopefully not be on the Duty Finder and actually involve wandering around the map... Assuming Treasure Map Dungeons are still even in the works, which they damn sure better be...

Well having played SWTOR when it launched without a DF I can tell you it's just one of those things MMO need now a days. I remember doing maybe 5 out of 12 dungeons total because it was either sit in the city hub /sh for a group or go into the world and level. Only thing DF does is make party invite automatic and not manual.

All this talk about the huge maps in FFXI makes me want to log in and see how long it actually takes to travel a zone on Chocobo. I would guess no more that 5 mins per zone.

[Susanoh]

The original Final Fantasy, and every single one which followed it, pretty much only had a sense of danger in boss fights, which is no less true in XIV. Once you knew what you were doing, grinding overworld mobs was a chore more than anything. Exploration? Comparing a single player game to a MMO is somewhat unfair. XIV does have a sense of exploration; I remember in beta (when stuck in Gridania) wondering if we'd get to explore The Ruins of Amdapor south of Camp Tranquil, and the giant ruin from Dalamud in North Shroud. Now, come 2.2, I will be able to. Colour me happy. Same thing happened for 2.1, in early access I remember fishing at Aleport and wondering if we'd get to go inside that Lighthouse, then after doing the main quest I was disappointed we didn't get to go in that Lighthouse, then 2.1 hit and I was happy to explore that Lighthouse. There is a sense of exploration in this game. Only the once of course, then it's just a grind and any sense of exploration is gone, but how is that any less true in any of the other Final Fantasy games? Once I've played them once the sense of exploration is mostly gone and I'm just going through the motions when I replay them. The only difference is I don't replay Final Fantasy very often, meanwhile I play Final Fantasy XIV fairly often because it's a MMO.

You can complain that there is no exploration once you can teleport everywhere if you like. I remember the old games for what they were; there was no sense of exploration once I had an airship and could travel anywhere I wanted very easily, either.

You're talking about instanced dungeons. Something you have to queue up for that have a single set path and no secrets, no deviation, and most importantly, aren't part of the overworld. You cannot even travel to them through the entrance if you tried to. When traveling to the entrance, you're met with the duty finder screen and given an option to queue up from there. If that's something you enjoy, more power to you, but you can't expect people disappointed with the game's world to be impressed by something which, to use your own words which I could not agree more with, "kills the world by taking you out of it at every possible chance."

[SeleneSinclair]

snip

Here's the problem with your map logic: the difference between FFXI maps (which you were clearly referencing) and these in relative size are not different at all. The difference is, this game, you actually have a mount. If you wanted to "explore" like that, you could always just...dismount.

[Sotek]

Ybut you can't expect people disappointed with the game's world to be impressed by something

By all means, be disappointed with it, my point is you're disappointed because of rose tinted glasses.

My first run of Sastasha? Pretty damn good. I explored it, was it linear? Mostly. There was "secrets" that you could skip, same with every dungeon in the game.
My first play through of Final Fantasy? Temple of Chaos was pretty damn good, blah blah blah, same with every dungeon in that game.

There is really no difference between them, other than the fact that you keep playing XIV over and over, where as after being done with Final Fantasy, you were. If I just went through Temple of Chaos over and over, like I do Amdapor Keep, there would be absolutely no difference. Please stop pretending there is.

[KaiserFire]

In terms of skill spam the 2.5sec GCD is relatively slow paced compared to similar games. The dodging mechanic does feel overused in some fights, but unless you have a bad connection it doesn't require "lighting reflexes" to avoid enemy attacks. As far as leveling and questing goes most of us here are probably use to a much slower pace, but I don't think that is going to be the norm in the future as these types of games reach a wider and more diverse audience.

Bigger maps would be nice, but I imagine there must have been technical constraints of some kind that dictated their final size.

I don't agree that the community is "garbage". Granted I don't hang around in towns that much, but I hardly ever see the insults and trolling you describe. In fact I'm surprised at how quiet the public chat logs are in this game compared to previous MMO's I've played.

I agree with the good points you listed. While there are some design problems, the game really excels in the art department.

[Susanoh]

By all means, be disappointed with it, my point is you're disappointed because of rose tinted glasses.

My first run of Sastasha? Pretty damn good. I explored it, was it linear? Mostly. There was "secrets" that you could skip, same with every dungeon in the game.
My first play through of Final Fantasy? Temple of Chaos was pretty damn good, blah blah blah, same with every dungeon in that game.

There is really no difference between them, other than the fact that you keep playing XIV over and over, where as after being done with Final Fantasy, you were. If I just went through Temple of Chaos over and over, like I do Amdapor Keep, there would be absolutely no difference. Please stop pretending there is.

There's a very clear difference and it's plain to see.

Every FF game: Walk around, find stuff, see what's inside.

FF14: Walk around, be directed to stuff by quest guy, get pointed into the direction of a menu that takes you out of the game world and into an instance with other players like a typical hub game.

I don't know why I'm bothering to explain it to you though, because I know that on some level you understand despite now pretending that you don't. Again, these are your words. "Only problem I have with Eorzea is the Duty Finder, which completely kills the world by taking you out of it at every possible chance... You go to the entrance of a dungeon once, then never again." Other FF games didn't feel like a cramped hub where you get taken out of the world to go anywhere interesting. Even the other online Final Fantasy titles (XI, the original FFXIV) did not do this. Spout nonsense like "rose tinted glasses" all you like, but even you from back one page would have understood what I'm talking about in reference to ARR, so I see no reason why you right now seems reluctant to understand.