So..Lets talk jobs?

[Duelle]

i smell Red Mage

Heh, the one thing my entire being in this game hinges on, and the risk of getting more of the same crap from FFXI is still there. Funny, too, seeing that it'd indicate all those melee discussions on the NA and JP sides on the matter throughout the years have been completely ignored.

[Scherwiz]

Heh, the one thing my entire being in this game hinges on, and the risk of getting more of the same crap from FFXI is still there. Funny, too, seeing that it'd indicate all those melee discussions on the NA and JP sides on the matter throughout the years have been completely ignored.

Some of us like XI RDM.

[_C-a-e-r-i-t-h_]

Some of us like XI RDM.

If Red Mage isn't supposed to be debuffing and refreshing, or taking several hours to solo Genbu, then what should Red Mage be? A jack of all trades, master of none? Or more like XI BLU in that they actually can melee effectively?

[Scherwiz]

If Red Mage isn't supposed to be debuffing and refreshing, or taking several hours to solo Genbu, then what should Red Mage be? A jack of all trades, master of none? Or more like XI BLU in that they actually can melee effectively?

I do not have an answer for you, nor do I know SE's intent on anything ever, but I liked playing RDM as a support class in XI.

[Kam]

I do not have an answer for you, nor do I know SE's intent on anything ever, but I liked playing RDM as a support class in XI.

A well geared rdm could play any generic role in XI, like it was meant to do - and excelled at a few of them. Though I understand as to why many people think of it as simply playing that role you described for it.

XI was gear and macro intensive, a thing people seem to want to get rid of. So yea, the question seems to be; How do we make a jack of all traits* with no gear swapping while balancing it to the other classes and jobs? (*Which is the current battle system if you think about it lol)

The short answer is you can't - it loses position to specialised roles.

[Duelle]

XI was gear and macro intensive, a thing people seem to want to get rid of. So yea, the question seems to be; How do we make a jack of all traits* with no gear swapping while balancing it to the other classes and jobs? (*Which is the current battle system if you think about it lol)

The short answer is you can't - it loses position to specialised roles.

Not necessarily. Gear was one of RDM's balancing factors in XI; as in, gear currently equipped. That balancing factor was negated due to allowing all that gear swapping.

Had they gone with Caird's idea of layering jobs on top of the classes rather than treating the jobs as specialization paths for each class, I'd say Scherwiz and I would both get what we want. I could set my class to FNC (once that's introduced) and my job to RDM and be a magic fencer. He'd get to set himself as CON or THM and play RDM as support.

Since that's not going to be the case, one of two things should happen. Either you allow RDM to become flexible based on abilities and traits set, with gear sealing the deal (as in, you equip melee traits, melee gear, and melee attacks and you get to stand in the front, equip healer/support traits and abilities and you stand in the back, and so on), or you focus more on the melee mage aspect of Red Mage right out of the box (the way it was done with BLU in FFXI) to keep the same mistake that happened in XI from repeating itself. All of this is provided the class combo that unlocks Red Mage is a mix of GLA/FNC and CON/THM. Personally, I'd be pleased if it was FNC and CON.

[SydeBeheln]

Not necessarily. Gear was one of RDM's balancing factors in XI; as in, gear currently equipped. That balancing factor was negated due to allowing all that gear swapping.

Had they gone with Caird's idea of layering jobs on top of the classes rather than treating the jobs as specialization paths for each class, I'd say Scherwiz and I would both get what we want. I could set my class to FNC (once that's introduced) and my job to RDM and be a magic fencer. He'd get to set himself as CON or THM and play RDM as support.

Since that's not going to be the case, one of two things should happen. Either you allow RDM to become flexible based on abilities and traits set, with gear sealing the deal (as in, you equip melee traits, melee gear, and melee attacks and you get to stand in the front, equip healer/support traits and abilities and you stand in the back, and so on), or you focus more on the melee mage aspect of Red Mage right out of the box (the way it was done with BLU in FFXI) to keep the same mistake that happened in XI from repeating itself. All of this is provided the class combo that unlocks Red Mage is a mix of GLA/FNC and CON/THM. Personally, I'd be pleased if it was FNC and CON.

Don't forget what RDM's signature skills are. The option to use not only white magic, but black magic too, and equip heavier armor with offensive weapons+ shields. Because of this, RDM doesn't master in any one specific skill, but instead has the viability of using all said skills.

Applying that to the FFXIV system, means we need to look at RDM differently than we do in FFXI. People need to pre-determine their role in a party, if they know they are going to be main healers, than set your actions to do so. Same goes if you end up nuking(magic DD). Or luckily for RDM they can even choose to be a front-line job, and utilize a bit of everything offensively, with a tid-bit of support options. Gear switching as the devs have already said, is something signature to FFXI, and is not something they want FFXIV to utilize. Look at RDM along the lines of "what role am i playing today, set my actions for that role, equip the gear for that role, and stick with it till my role has changed/ party ends".

[Drogyn]

Some of us like XI RDM.

Same 'crap' from XI? XI is what made me fall in love with the RDM in the first place. /Agree with Scherwiz

[Physic]

Same 'crap' from XI? XI is what made me fall in love with the RDM in the first place. /Agree with Scherwiz

did you enjoy the, a bit of everythingness, or rather the debuff/buffing landing effects specialist, because they could easily seperate the two