So..Lets talk jobs?

[Kam]

I do not have an answer for you, nor do I know SE's intent on anything ever, but I liked playing RDM as a support class in XI.

A well geared rdm could play any generic role in XI, like it was meant to do - and excelled at a few of them. Though I understand as to why many people think of it as simply playing that role you described for it.

XI was gear and macro intensive, a thing people seem to want to get rid of. So yea, the question seems to be; How do we make a jack of all traits* with no gear swapping while balancing it to the other classes and jobs? (*Which is the current battle system if you think about it lol)

The short answer is you can't - it loses position to specialised roles.

[Kam]

GLA doesn't have to be noble, and holy like a PLD does. GLA has it's own story just as much as PLD does. Theoretically the mechanic in the game requires GLA at a certain to become a PLD if the player chooses to, so with that in mind remember that GLA has to stand on it's own in terms of lore.

It's not hard to put together a quest-line involving the "money-making-entertainer" who chooses to follow the path of a holy knight. We shouldn't have to expect the reworking of the original classes to have an understanding of the advanced jobs.

This. XIVs paladin can be unique in its lore, and still be a "paladin". I hope they have a few writers dedicated to the job introductions - and since they have already stated jobs will come from quests. It seems they have

Though hopefully not as lacking as the "sub-quests". hoping for a cut-scene or two atleast... >_<

[SydeBeheln]

This. XIVs paladin can be unique in its lore, and still be a "paladin". I hope they have a few writers dedicated to the job introductions - and since they have already stated jobs will come from quests. It seems they have

Though hopefully not as lacking as the "sub-quests". hoping for a cut-scene or two atleast... >_<

I would be absolutely disappointed if job quests were not cut-scene's. They should be up to par with exactly the same quality(if not cooler/better) than the other class story-line based quests. I am hoping for some good variety of quests too, hopefully each jobquest isn't copy&pasted from job to job. Giving higher insight, and a good foundation/back ground to each of the jobs is absolutely key if they hope to rise interest in the job system's lore.

[Duelle]

XI was gear and macro intensive, a thing people seem to want to get rid of. So yea, the question seems to be; How do we make a jack of all traits* with no gear swapping while balancing it to the other classes and jobs? (*Which is the current battle system if you think about it lol)

The short answer is you can't - it loses position to specialised roles.

Not necessarily. Gear was one of RDM's balancing factors in XI; as in, gear currently equipped. That balancing factor was negated due to allowing all that gear swapping.

Had they gone with Caird's idea of layering jobs on top of the classes rather than treating the jobs as specialization paths for each class, I'd say Scherwiz and I would both get what we want. I could set my class to FNC (once that's introduced) and my job to RDM and be a magic fencer. He'd get to set himself as CON or THM and play RDM as support.

Since that's not going to be the case, one of two things should happen. Either you allow RDM to become flexible based on abilities and traits set, with gear sealing the deal (as in, you equip melee traits, melee gear, and melee attacks and you get to stand in the front, equip healer/support traits and abilities and you stand in the back, and so on), or you focus more on the melee mage aspect of Red Mage right out of the box (the way it was done with BLU in FFXI) to keep the same mistake that happened in XI from repeating itself. All of this is provided the class combo that unlocks Red Mage is a mix of GLA/FNC and CON/THM. Personally, I'd be pleased if it was FNC and CON.

[SydeBeheln]

Not necessarily. Gear was one of RDM's balancing factors in XI; as in, gear currently equipped. That balancing factor was negated due to allowing all that gear swapping.

Had they gone with Caird's idea of layering jobs on top of the classes rather than treating the jobs as specialization paths for each class, I'd say Scherwiz and I would both get what we want. I could set my class to FNC (once that's introduced) and my job to RDM and be a magic fencer. He'd get to set himself as CON or THM and play RDM as support.

Since that's not going to be the case, one of two things should happen. Either you allow RDM to become flexible based on abilities and traits set, with gear sealing the deal (as in, you equip melee traits, melee gear, and melee attacks and you get to stand in the front, equip healer/support traits and abilities and you stand in the back, and so on), or you focus more on the melee mage aspect of Red Mage right out of the box (the way it was done with BLU in FFXI) to keep the same mistake that happened in XI from repeating itself. All of this is provided the class combo that unlocks Red Mage is a mix of GLA/FNC and CON/THM. Personally, I'd be pleased if it was FNC and CON.

Don't forget what RDM's signature skills are. The option to use not only white magic, but black magic too, and equip heavier armor with offensive weapons+ shields. Because of this, RDM doesn't master in any one specific skill, but instead has the viability of using all said skills.

Applying that to the FFXIV system, means we need to look at RDM differently than we do in FFXI. People need to pre-determine their role in a party, if they know they are going to be main healers, than set your actions to do so. Same goes if you end up nuking(magic DD). Or luckily for RDM they can even choose to be a front-line job, and utilize a bit of everything offensively, with a tid-bit of support options. Gear switching as the devs have already said, is something signature to FFXI, and is not something they want FFXIV to utilize. Look at RDM along the lines of "what role am i playing today, set my actions for that role, equip the gear for that role, and stick with it till my role has changed/ party ends".

[Duelle]

Don't forget what RDM's signature skills are. The option to use not only white magic, but black magic too, and equip heavier armor with offensive weapons+ shields. Because of this, RDM doesn't master in any one specific skill, but instead has the viability of using all said skills.

The problem is that doesn't mesh well when they're using the jobs as specializations for the current weapon classes. Hence why I'm more likely to lean towards melee mage being emphasized this time around rather than risk the generalist design and end up shackled to the back row again in the content that matters. Plenty of FF ideas have been adapted to the MMO context. It's about time RDM gets the same treatment, really.

As I see it, RDM is the kind of character that in a fighting game would combo you and then throw you to the other edge of the screen not through a fancy throw or a knockback attack, but instead by releasing magic on you at point-blank range.

[_C-a-e-r-i-t-h_]

The problem is that doesn't mesh well when they're using the jobs as specializations for the current weapon classes. Hence why I'm more likely to lean towards melee mage being emphasized this time around rather than risk the generalist design and end up shackled to the back row again in the content that matters. Plenty of FF ideas have been adapted to the MMO context. It's about time RDM gets the same treatment, really.

As I see it, RDM is the kind of character that in a fighting game would combo you and then throw you to the other edge of the screen not through a fancy throw or a knockback attack, but instead by releasing magic on you at point-blank range.

You mean, give RDM a better sword skill level so they can actually hit and do damage, but then... oh, instead of En-Spells just being +10 fire damage, make it so you can En- any spell to go off on your next hit. So, like, charge your sword with Fire III and on the next attack it goes stab plus boom.

[Nabiri]

Worried about Red Mage. I'll die inside if it's pushed into the healing/buffing onry role again.

[Duelle]

You mean, give RDM a better sword skill level so they can actually hit and do damage, but then... oh, instead of En-Spells just being +10 fire damage, make it so you can En- any spell to go off on your next hit. So, like, charge your sword with Fire III and on the next attack it goes stab plus boom.

I guess that works, too. I was thinking more along the lines of what Seifer did during the intro to FFVIII; releasing a fire spell right in Squall's face.

Personally, I'd design the job around mixing magic and melee. Enspells, spells cast through the equipped sword, procs that could be spent to insta-cast a nuke or a heal depending on what's needed at the moment. That sort of thing. But yes, better damage would be part of the deal.

[Alcide]

Hey everyone, this is producer/director Yoshida.

I seem to recall there being a discussion about what each class will become job-wise in a previous thread. While it's still a bit too early to talk about the specifics, I will let you know a bit about the plan. Once it becomes possible to publicize the specs, I plan on making a post in battle mechanics section, but since job implementation will be taking place post-class balance adjustments, it is going to take some time. (Planning for post patch 1.20.)
Matsui, Gondai, and myself, are creating this plan, and the early jobs are based on "party balance."

Sorry, what??
I remember reading something about the dungeons needing certain roles in order to be compleated, in particular needing a certain "job" and not a simple "class"...
What's the point in bringing the dungeons 2 patchs before what we need to complete them properly? o.O