Is there an unneeded hostility towards regular classes in this game?

[Huntington]

We are 10 pages in and your still whining about it, I think that's quite a valid point lol xD

I do think if you had a better attitude

A. You don't know how much hostility I might receive in-game besides one or two occurrences that I've told you about.
B.

I should have realised using "Arc" during the context of this thread may have been a bit too hard for you to understand, apologies.

I like this logic.

I'm going to start joining party's as a healer on my BLM, because I have Physick, why should they complain!

In case you missed it

That last quote was from you quoting something uninformative after you ignored and brushed off the few paragraphs I had left you already in response. At this point, you really want me to acknowledge what you're saying, but since I've replied seriously several times and you ignore it, leave for awhile, then come back and pretend like you didn't get a message, it's assured to me that you have nothing better to do and are simply a troll.
Check yourself before you wreck yourself if you're going to lecture me on attitude.

Here it is again since you brushed it off last time:

Because you know full well that how I'm speaking to people giving me crap is exactly how I interact with people in-game right? You're assuming a lot based on my few hours of just having been on this forum. I've been respectful to people in other threads and here that didn't immediately look down on me and make up excuses about my playstyle. T0rin assumed that because I said that 3 minuscule points of WPN damage didn't matter heavily when we don't need to be over-geared, that it meant that all weapon damage for every single weapon in the game meant nothing as well. There's plenty of other assumptions that have been made by others, but because someone voiced an opinion against what everyone else likes for not having even played another MMO, because I've only seen 2 or 3 other people even admit the fact that they've touched something besides XIV, that immediately I'm unaware or ignorant on every matter that could be pointed at.

Impartialness is critical to having any discussion or conversation, yet I see people jumping in here like children and making any clever retort or joke they can then leaving before they've even attempted to be mature or polite about the matter. If you're going to say my attitude was poor when I haven't even been saying anything like what others have, then get your prejudiced and biased opinions out of my thread. You're not interested in having a discussion whether or not I'm correct or incorrect, you're concerned with finding your jollies by antagonizing people over the internet.

I haven't thought very many were condescending besides you T0rin. Word it around again however you want, but how you've spoken to me isn't anything new, I saw other SMN threads where you acted the same way, the reasons might have been that they were wrong about something, said something incorrect, or didn't phrase something right. Despite which one it was, you spoke to them the same way, I don't need to waste time here anymore, especially with Escaflowne who rambles and keeps posting things completely lacking in relevance yet seems to want me to reply to them based on their 10+ replies, and Scarebears who conveniently replies after they pretend they're here for actual discussion, even when they say they've made their main point a long time ago in the thread but keep posting..

29 posts as of this one are my replies to the thread as the thread creator, the other 71 are other people including yourself. I barely make up a fourth of the thread at this point, and for someone that created the thread, that's not entirely unheard of. If we want to start name-calling though you've been whining along with a lot of others about the same rehashed point even when it's already been addressed. You don't read through all the posts, attempt to move onto something else, or even stop replying, so I'll refer you to another post of mine now:

For the record now, I am not continually bumping this thread, others are. You reply with something besides the usual "OP needs to leave forums 4ever argument" and I'll reply to it, this thread dies when people stop commenting on it.

If you'd like to stop willingly repeating yourself, stop replying to the topic, hide or ignore me, and go away. Solves everyone's problems. It isn't that difficult a concept, or does everyone enjoy flexing their brains yelling the same thing at me over and over again thinking they're giving fire to man for the first time?

[Blackdawn06]

Not sure if troll....or hipster...or both. Either way, everything that needed to be said discrediting your ACN > SMN theories has been said in the first page.

Cant get BiS gear as an ACN, nor can you achieve ACC cap. If you somehow ARE able to achieve acc cap, you are gimping your DPS on irrelevant itemized gear, thus you cant do t5. If you can do t5, you are being carried and are not a valued asset to your group. It is with this mindset that people progress through all end game content. Hence why no one takes you seriously.

Edit ~ To put into perspective, if SE meant for regular classes to be a viable option for end game content, they would have AF gear to support them. They dont, because they arent. It's plain to see.

[Fireseen]

I should have realised using "Arc" during the context of this thread may have been a bit too hard for you to understand, apologies.



So someone uses the "wrong pet" and you put them right about it and they changed to improve their performance.

You on the other hand get told you should be playing Summoner and you go whine about it for 10 pages on a forum?

Makes perfect sense. :S

You won the internets!

[Fireseen]

So in a nutshell what OP is trying to tell everyone:

Arcanist - great utility and survivability, what ever damage, uses include: killing lvl 49+ mobs in outdoor areas, FATEs
Summoner - great Damage (who cares about utility and survivability, dont stand in the red/pulse), uses include: killing lvl 49+ mobs in outdoor areas, FATEs, dungeons, Primals, EX Primal, CT, Coil, etc.

[Ephier]

I've given my reasoning on all of those before :/

1. SMN utility is not anywhere near as good as ACN, the three viable abilities that SMN has right now is Raging Strikes, Quelling Strikes, and Swiftcast. ACN has all of those too, plus Stoneskin, Protect, Foresight, Convalescence, Aero, Blood for Blood, Internal Release, Awareness, and more. There's no one that can deny that if SMN had access to all of those, that it would be god-tier.
2. However, ACN does hit weaker than SMN does, I've never once said that I believe that SMN could be out-matched in a fight by a ACN, though I did a Parse at one time that had SMN one point lower than it, but whatever that's outdated by this point and no longer relevant. I played as ACN because I enjoyed it's versatility more than SMN's. Simple as that, it was more fun to me.
3. I won't take ACN into those fights because it's clear and evident that I need to be putting my best foot forward, of course I could dodge AoEs and still do damage as good as any other time, but other people will be expecting the highest order of stats and gear for those fights, I do not wish to argue with people all day about something if I want to just do a Duty mission and do something else, it's not worth the time. SMN has more damage capability than ACN as of now with the Class and Job split, so to save time, I'll grin and bear it and just play as SMN since it's my best DPS class right now.

Does that explain it?

Good sir, you are DPS, why are you concerned with utility?

1.If you are casting stoneskin you are not doing damage and the other DPS are now stressed harder to carry your lack there of. You have two healers for protect mut point. You are not tanking, why do you need foresight? Healers end game can heal you well enough that you do not need convalescence. The DPS buffs such as blood for blood and internal release are nice, but with their nerfs in 2.1, they do not make up for the INT from the job crystal, dmg you are missing from relic +1, and bis relic gear. Yet again you are not tanking, why do you need awareness?

2. Playing ACN by yourself would be fine, when you are with other people you are being a burden, especially in places such as t5. Me personally as a DPS main would be very irritated dealing with someone doing sub optimal damage on purpose just because they like something more.

3. Good mind set change. While it is sad that you cannot use classes, as they do have more versatility, they will never be more powerful than jobs. Consider it like old school MMOs where you have 1st job, 2nd job, etc. The 2nd job will always outclass the first job, even though there were builds that could be used on the first job for niche.

[Alcyon1]

Hmm ...

What's the main job of a tank ? Making the raid take the minimal amount of damage.
What's the main job of a healer ? Keeping everybody alive.
What's the main job of a DPS ? Making the raid do the maximum damage and not taking avoidable damage.

What's the sub job of a tank ? Help the DPS by doing some damage and the healers (Ot castinf Stonskin is an example).
What's the sub job of healer ? Help the DPS in some fights (plumes vs Garuda EX is an example).
What's the sub job of a DPS ? Nothing (except for BRD).

In end-game content, if the DPS is too weak, the raid wipes. So, gimping your DPS for more "utility" is a no-no.

[Ryuko]

At first, I thought maybe you were a new player just starting out the game and that's why your SMN dps was so low... (214 was it?) There's no shame in not having the best gear yet. But now that I know you are i78... That's actually a pretty high iLevel! You should be doing AT LEAST 250 in most fights on SMN with your current gear... probably even more. When you get full i90, you should be doing around 300~ (with your pet added of course). I'm not going to ask you to post your rotation because a few people have already asked you to and you've refused. Instead, I'm going to offer this advice and you can either take it or leave it. Other summoners may criticize tiny things in my rotation, but trust me this will increase your DPS by a lot either way.

Start of the fight: tell Garuda to attack with obey. Never use Sic. If it is a fight with a lot of AoEs and dodging, be sure to place her so she doesn't take too much damage. Watch her HP and if it gets low, Sustain while you are dodging something of your own so little dps potential is wasted).
Greatest dps potential on single target (for burst moments, WITH all your cooldowns): RS > Bio II > Miasma > Bio > (wait for Bio to land) Fester > Miasma II (while triggering Contagion) > SC > Shadowflare > Ruin 2 (trigger rouse while waiting on GCD) > Ruin 2 > (trigger spur while waiting on GCD) > Fester > Energy Drain if you need the MP, or another Ruin 2 > RS is over... > Enkindle > Ruin 1 spam until refreshing dots... rinse, repeat.

When dealing with multiple mobs, make sure your 3 main dots are up with Bane, you are using Miasma II, and Shadowflare for the highest dps potential.

When dealing with multiple targets, there are a few questions to ask yourself:
How long do I expect these targets to be alive? (If they will be alive for a while, consider throwing Contagion on the mob you used your initial dots on before using Bane.)
How many targets are there? (If there are more than four total, your Bane will not hit them all. If there are considerably more than four, you may want to start by casting your dots on a mob on one side of the pack, Bane-ing, and then casting your dots on a mob on the other side of the pack, and Bane-ing. I do this on spiders in phase 1 of Turn 4, for example.)
Is it dangerous for me to go in the middle of the pack of mobs? (If not, Blizzard II should be your 'filler' while your dots are ticking and a lot of mobs alive. If it IS dangerous to go inside the pack, you can use Tri-Disaster instead (less damage, longer cast time, more mp than Blizzard II) or burst down targets that need to die fast with Fester...)

General rules...
Shadowflare is worth it if a single target monster will be in the area of effect for most of the spell's duration. If your party doesn't need you to save SC for possible raises, this is what I waste my SC on since it's a long cast time. Shadowflare is ALWAYS worth it on multiple mobs.
Miasma II isn't really worth it on single target unless you are extending dot duration with Contagion. Even then, some people are still kind of 'meh' about its potential. I personally like using it. Miasma II is ALWAYS worth it on multiple mobs.
Fester on cooldown unless you are saving your aethercharges for something specific.
Ruin II does the same damage as Ruin 1, except it is instant (distributes damage BEFORE the GCD is up) and has an added effect of blind. Generally, to conserve MP, don't use Ruin II all the time. Some good moments to use it are... while you are dodging something (to maximize dps potential), when something is ALMOST dead (and you want every second to count), and when you are trying to squeeze as much as you can into cooldowns (like RS and popping pet cooldowns at the same time). I also like Ruin II for in dungeons where I pull hate on adds and the mob is attacking me... because it blinds the mob.

You will perhaps be happy about this analogy...

Remember when you first did the arcanist storyline, and the NPCs made a big deal out of math and timing meaning everything to arcanist? That wasn't just corny roleplaying. It actually holds true with BOTH of those jobs. A summoner/scholar who knows what is coming in a fight will do a LOT better. Timing your aetherflow charges for juuuuuust the right moments is important. For scholar, it might be saving Lustrate for moments where the tank gets hit hard, or using sacred soil preemtively before a hard-hitting AoE. For summoner, it might be saving charges for adds you *know* are coming (Titan ex jails, or Ifrit ex nails)... But, the more you understand a fight, the better you will perform... you will be able to time everything perfectly, and this is what bridges the gap between arcanist and SMN/SCH.

[Megido]

Forgive me for not putting up with T0rin just because I don't like someone constantly condescending me while I'm being spoken to, it's clear I've already been made the bad guy here so why did you feel the need to jump in and make a quip if it isn't anything particularly helpful or for that matter clever?

You type like an adult but your mental processes are like a child.

[Clavaat]

-snip-

This is WoW mentality. The OP's ideas make sense in an FFXI mentality, and, what he had hoped, would be an FFXIV mentality. That's kind of the whole point of this. Not necessarily what is the best option, but to explore options and hopefully expand upon them in the future. Why limit yourself to 1 idea and 1 idea only? As I said before, at this point in the game, your mentality here is correct. However, what if ACN had access to Silence that SMN didn't? This opens up the door for more options when grouping up. I for one would like this game to expand to more options for Utility/Support jobs beyond just BRD. I understand, and I believe the OP understands, that this isn't how it currently is in FFXIV. However, games evolve. It's possible that the extra healing on you (Convalescence), would be important during Leviathan or something. Probably not, but maybe. Keep your options open, keep thinking, don't limit yourself.

EDIT: Actually, that post is kind of wrong anyway, as melee can stun, which is a Utility in several fights.

[EvanderStoneguard]

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA I MADE IT TO THE END!!!

read everything now I know what going on in this thread.

wait.........

what is exactly going on?!?!?!