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  1. #1
    Player
    Allyrion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    1,231
    Character
    Allyrion Windwalker
    World
    Yojimbo
    Main Class
    Samurai Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Huntington View Post
    If you haven't, feel free to speak up and say what experiences you have give such a clerical advantage to your words, you've thrown walls of DPS stats at me, but who saw you do them? Do you have other people that could be contacted on this site and asked to give witness testimony? Or are you just going to keep holding whatever cache of knowledge you think you have over me and then use that as the deciding factor in why your words mean more than mine.
    Experience is important but it does not make for an objective argument. It is by definition anecdotal.
    T0rin's position on how stats work and how they affect SMN damage are all over this forum.
    However, I do think he may have come off as confrontational. There's nothing wrong with trying things out.

    You were asking others about their tests and how things match up.
    I don't believe you need to go through every bit of theory crafting to discuss trying out ACN. You didn't deserve the ridicule you got.

    On the other hand, you've fallen into bad arguments about experience based on another game (with a completely different system) and talking about the system being faulty.
    If I remember correctly, SE's comment about classes not being useful didn't imply it wasn't going to be fixed. If anything, Classes will be given better solo potential, but Jobs will always be at the forefront for group end-game content.
    That has always been the stated design. In fact, I'll quote it:
    The foremost appeal of jobs is the unparalleled degree of specialization they offer. Their potential is best realized in party situations, where having well-defined roles is the key to success. There can be no doubt that jobs shine the brightest in the company of others.
    Hence despite your whole spiel about knowing the company's MMO history by playing XI, you are speaking about going into end-game parties with a class.
    Now experimenting is fine with friends or solo, but when you join a PuG then are you really surprised people give you a hard time for going against the game's design?
    If you ever really did find a way for ACN to beat out SMN dps, then you'll probably be the one exploiting "a faulty mechanic".

    I think this discussion could've gone more civilly and that's a shame.
    Either way, your testing seems a little incomplete at a few minutes and relying on someone else to get your dps. Dps evens out at around 5 minutes. It would even give more credibility if you gave actual result numbers for each test. Of course, if you aren't doing the SMN rotation right it won't prove anything but the discussion would benefit from some real numbers thrown around. You should also use equal gear on the ACN and SMN to provide equal footing.
    (5)
    Last edited by Allyrion; 02-22-2014 at 02:25 PM.

  2. #2
    Player
    T0rin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    447
    Character
    Torin Escarpa
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Allyrion View Post
    I think this discussion could've gone more civilly and that's a shame.
    It was, more or less, at first. Then as he began to bring XI into the conversation as some form of credibility in false assumptions, that's when things started to take a turn for the worse. It's one thing to want to try something new. It's another thing to go around saying something different is better, with nothing to back it up, but years of play time in another game. There is a lot of bad information that goes around these forums, which new players and people new to the forum might take as truth. I've always attempted to correct bad information as best I could, while informing myself better at the same time.

    It is hard, though, to not become somewhat confrontational in the face of such petulance. When I'm being told simple things like relics are simply vanity items, weapon damage doesn't matter, and fester doesn't affect DPS. I mean, things we know as truth now are being rebutted in the face of everyone, with nothing to back it up. The spreading of misinformation really bothers me, especially when someone is so convinced they are right, and many people who have come before them have concretely proven them wrong. New players tend to believe the people who say things with confidence they are right, simply out of not knowing any better. They may even think this guy is right, because he believes it so strongly.

    Anyways, to the OP.... you came here asking for questions to be answered, and you got your answers, with proof. You didn't want to believe it, and started up this little debate that inevitably you could not 'win'. Yet you persisted, and blame others, namely me, for being confrontational. Next time, be a little more open minded, especially in the face of the truth, and you might come away with a better result.
    (5)